Points - Split Timing Question

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OldRider2
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Points - Split Timing Question

#1

Post by OldRider2 »

Does it matter how far beyond the F mark that points close either for point sets 1&2 or 3&4?

When I'm checking the points for Cylinders 1 & 2 they are opening with the Test Light very close to the F mark on 1. Depending on which cam is opening the points they are either dead on the F or about a 1/16 -1/8" after the F.

Randakk then says to check to make sure the 1 & 2 points don't close until after the F mark for 2. My points definitely close after the F marks for both point sets but it is probably 1" - 1 1/4 that they are fully closed. Is that to far past the F mark or should it be closer to the F? Maybe I'm over thinking this not having ever adjusted these points and timing before.
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Re: Points - Split Timing Question

#2

Post by ericheath »

Won’t matter. As I recall the idea behind them closing after the F mark is so only one coil is saturating at a time. If they saturate at the same time, the juice is lower and the spark may not be as strong. Probably closer is better, but getting them perfect is tough. Yours sound pretty good.

The split timing theory is to compare the 1-2 points on the first F1 and then again on the second F1, which is one half of a CAMshaft revolution later. So you set your timing to right on the F1 mark, then rotate the CRANK one full turn and see if it’s still right on the F1 mark. If not adjust so one is a little before the F mark and the other a little behind.

THEN you check the 3-4 points the same way.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
OldRider2
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Re: Points - Split Timing Question

#3

Post by OldRider2 »

Thanks Eric for the reply. I decided to stop putzing with the points and see how the bike would run. It did not fire right up anywhere near as good as it did with the burned points. Exceleration on it above 50 seemed like it was much better but I don't like the way it starts now so I'm going to play with the static timing again in the next few days. I've re-read Octane's and Randakk's How To's a few times to make sure I got it but obviously not. I want it to start like a GL and it's not there yet! :IDTS:
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Re: Points - Split Timing Question

#4

Post by Whiskerfish »

I have struggled with the starting thing. One of my bikes fires before you touch the button and the other cranks and cranks. Both run very well and I have been through everything numerous times. No idea what causes it.
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Re: Points - Split Timing Question

#5

Post by leggman »

On my 79 I gave up on the points and put in a dyna unit. It runs much better but I had to get creative with a dremel to make it work right.
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Re: Points - Split Timing Question

#6

Post by OldRider2 »

A Dyna unit is not in the budget at this point plus I'm determined to get the points and timing set properly.
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Re: Points - Split Timing Question

#7

Post by Whiskerfish »

The first couple times you deal with points can be challenging. Then for me at least it just kind of clicked and now they are super simple to setup. just have to take your time and read through the process and you will get there.
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
OldRider2
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Re: Points - Split Timing Question

#8

Post by OldRider2 »

10-4 Whiskerfish on the first time being a challenge. I also changed all of the JIS screws out to allen heads and I think they are much easier to deal with than the screws.
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Re: Points - Split Timing Question

#9

Post by OldRider2 »

I hadn't thought of the firing sequence of 1-3-2-4 and how it is associated with timing 1 & 2 or 3 & 4. So when we are timing point set 1 & 2 are you expected to time #1 first or doesn't it matter? When I was timing the bike the other day I briefly thought about this but then couldn't figure out if #1 was on the compression or exhaust stroke without looking at the valves, which I obviously can't see.
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Re: Points - Split Timing Question

#10

Post by ericheath »

It won’t matter. You’re just checking if the timing changes from the mark. If it does, try to time one a little early and the other a little late. With the valve covers off you could tell which was on compression stroke (valves closed) and which was on exhaust stroke, valve would be open.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
OldRider2
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Re: Points - Split Timing Question

#11

Post by OldRider2 »

Success! Next time I think I'll just take a beating by Whiskerfish behind his garage, it would have been as much fun! :IDTS: At least now I know what I'm getting myself into. Timing 1 & 2 was really time consuming for me but I was trying for perfection and it didn't come immediately. After putzing around trying several combinations of timing I finally decided that for this bike the base plate centered in its opposite tick marks was the best. I then decided the .015 gap on the points gave me my best expectation. If I had a maintenance stand I think it would have been much easier but trying to look dead on at the points to set the gap or adjust the base plate at first just lying on a creeper and then putting the bike on a jack was challenging. The best I could get was just timing it a little before the F on one cylinder and then a little after the F on the opposite. Both cylinders were after the F2 mark, one of them just barely.

Point set 3 & 4 was much easier although I wished Mother Honda had put say an adjustment screw on all the adjustments so they were a easier to move just ever so slightly. I settled on 016" as the best point setting after trying a few combinations. I then decided to set the F2 mark on the line and manually moved the point plate until the light came on. So these points were dead on the mark for one cylinder and slightly after on the other, both cylinders were after on the F1 settings. I figured I would stop there because I hope to Dynamically Time if possible.

I took it out for a spin and it ran pretty good. Acceleration was good and power above 50 was good as well. crossy.gif The starting Whiskerfish and I talked about is better but I had to increase idle some and I still need to tweak that a little. After all of the adjusting I'm glad I replaced all of the screws with allen head set screws, definitely easier for me than the worn screws I had.

The only things that I'm not happy with the bike now are speedometer being slow to rise and fall, (hoping it will get better as I ride it), the Choke not staying on when I pull the button, and the Neutral Light staying on most of the time.
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ericheath
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Re: Points - Split Timing Question

#12

Post by ericheath »

The choke has a plastic nut below the pull knob. Snug it down just a bit and it will hold for you.

Speedometers usually come around with use.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
OldRider2
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Re: Points - Split Timing Question

#13

Post by OldRider2 »

10-4 on the Choke plastic nut. I've tried to tighten it 2-3 times but I'll give it another shot.
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Re: Points - Split Timing Question

#14

Post by Rat »

It’s EASY to break ....

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Re: Points - Split Timing Question

#15

Post by Whiskerfish »

Be optimistic about the speedo. They generally do get better with exercise.
"Agreement is not a requirement for Respect" CDR Michael Smith USN (Ret) 2017
"The book is wrong, this whole Conclusion is Fallacious" River Tam
2008 GL1800 IIIA "TH3DOG"
1975/6/7/8/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Psst. oh and by the way CHANGE YOUR BELTS!!!!
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