Right head tapping sound

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notalec
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Right head tapping sound

#1

Post by notalec »

This is on a 75 Gl1000. Stock except for an electronic ignition.

I have a strange sound coming from my right side head. I was coming back from a vintage meet here in Oregon and I got a little aggressive on the throttle. Somewhere in the higher rev range, I started to feel the bike struggle. I pulled off and heard a tapping noise in the right side head. I nursed the bike the last mile and half home and it seemed to behave normally at lower revs. When I got it back it was displaying what appeared to be a rod knock. But later turned out to just be the primary chain slapping. So I (de)synched the carbs and got it back to just the head noise. I managed to convince myself it was a broken valve spring, even though upon inspection they looked fine. I have had some leaking valve seals anyway so I figured I would replace springs and seals and just get two birds stoned at once. That cured my smoking on startup, but still the weird rattle noise in the right head. It's only at certain RPM ranges, and the bike seems to run pretty well. Not great. But pretty good. Compression was good and even across all 4. My fear is a piston wrist pin. It has also been suggested that it might be an oil pump bearing. I have also been told it might be a small carbon deposit stuck in the valve. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I've got other bikes to ride in the interim. But I would really like to get back on the wing.
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Re: Right head tapping sound

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Post by Old Fogey »

The wrist pin is a heat shrink fit in the rod; most unlikely to be from there unless you have a cracked piston.
So what could it be? First you say a tapping noice, then you say a rattle. Those are not the same to me.
First thoughts on the tapping noise was the belt has jumped a tooth (or two)but normally you would not have good nor even compression across the cylinders. Worth checking anyway. (maybe change the belts while you are in there, if it's been a while since you changed them)
You would not hear an oil pump bearing and anyway, it's nowhere near the head.
You could get a tapping noise if your rocker shafts are worn. Try this and see if it cures anything:
http://www.wingovations.com/rocker-spin ... 4579471094
Check your fuel pump. Sometimes the operating arm doesn't sit quite right on the cam.
Even the tach cable might make some noise.
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Re: Right head tapping sound

#3

Post by notalec »

Thanks for the response.

I think rattle is more accurate. The belt was changed recently. And given the compression is good, the engine seems to run pretty well, and the noise is isolated to one side, I don't think the timing belt is an issue.

Good to know the wrist pins and oil pump are rarely an issue. I will pull the rockers again tomorrow and try that trick.

I was also just reading that it could be a spark knock?
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Re: Right head tapping sound

#4

Post by Old Fogey »

That is also possible. Check your ignition timing. The auto advance unit can stick too, which could cause it. Pre-ignition can also be caused by carbon build up in the heads or on the valves.
If the right hand belt had jumped, the noise would be on just that side.
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Re: Right head tapping sound

#5

Post by desertrefugee »

Just throwing things out here, but could it be the belt tensioner on that side? Without hearing the noise, it's hard to be precise. We can only provide suggestions. A loose or worn out tensioner could make spooky noises.
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Re: Right head tapping sound

#6

Post by Whiskerfish »

Just for grins throw a few drops of oil down your Tach and Speed o cables. When they get dry they can make really strange rattling noises.
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Re: Right head tapping sound

#7

Post by desertrefugee »

Get a long screwdriver or wooden dowel and begin placing one end on various spots on the motor and the other to your ear while it's running. That's a great way to zero in on funny noises.
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Re: Right head tapping sound

#8

Post by notalec »

I swapped the rocker shafts and no difference. Timing is dead on. Although I’m starting to think maybe my right side tensioner is loose. Here are a few vids.

https://youtu.be/lco8LwqhXQU

https://youtu.be/hUkIJQOh0tU
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Re: Right head tapping sound

#9

Post by Old Fogey »

I still think you have a valve timing issue, despite the compression reading. You mention THE belt change. Since there are two belts that worries me somewhat. Did you change them (and check the tensioners at the same time) or did someone else?
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Re: Right head tapping sound

#10

Post by notalec »

I bought the bike last year from a local parts recycler that specializes in old wings. He said they were done recently and I am inclined to believe him.

I am little concerned about the tension on the right side belt. Did that look loose to you?
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Re: Right head tapping sound

#11

Post by Old Fogey »

Ok, first do not run that engine any more. There is something seriously wrong with it.
Second, YOU did not do the belts, so you are taking on trust that someone else did. With these engines, that can be a fatal mistake.
Third, that belt is loose. So whoever did it didn't do it right, if at all. You have one belt cover off, not sure about the other but take it off anyway.
Go here and order 2 belts
https://www.rockauto.com/en/parts/gates ... +belt,5716
When you have them come back here and we will help you get the timing right.
Hopefully, fingers crossed, there is no valve damage or the next job will be removing the head.

Oh, another question. How did you manage the valve spring removal without removing the head?
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Re: Right head tapping sound

#12

Post by notalec »

I replaced the valve springs with the magic of course.

I just used the tail end of my compression tester and hooked it up to my air compressor and filled the cylinder with compressed air. That holds the valves in place while you do springs/seals. Pretty handy trick. Also a good indicator that the valves aren't bent and are sealing well.

I took a peek with a borescope over lunch and the pistons look fine. A little bit of carbon build up. But nothing that I am concerned about.

The belts look great. I am sure they were done. I don't want to say who, but the guy I bought it from is pretty respected in the naked wing community. And I trust him. But it does look like maybe the tensioners weren't done. So I will pick up a set of tensioners and belts and do the whole job anyway. Not something I want to do twice.

If I end out having to pull the head then so be it. Worse things have happened.
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Re: Right head tapping sound

#13

Post by Old Fogey »

Ok. My question was to find out just what you told us. You might have done the rope trick, which would have told us nothing.

If as you say the valve timing (you just said timing. I'm assuming valves though you could have meant ignition since that has been mooted too) is correct, the valves are not leaking and compression is good, then you have bigger problems in that engine I feel. I don't believe the tensioner is making all that noise, although it would be easy to just take it off and test it.
Tensioners don't normally rattle. If the bearing goes they whine; a constant noise, not like the way your noise comes and goes. That noise is like nothing I have heard before.
Try running it with the rocker box off. You will get oil everywhere but you may see/hear something more easily.
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Re: Right head tapping sound

#14

Post by Track T 2411 »

Sounds very much like mine when the valve adjuster backed itself out. Simple stuff first...
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Re: Right head tapping sound

#15

Post by notalec »

Well today was interesting.

I broke a rocker assembly bolt trying to tourqe it down properly. Then I finally got around to draining and checking the oil and it’s not great. A pretty fine dust of aluminum in the oil. One small piece that got picked up by a magnet. But the vast majority of it is aluminum. Or non ferrous at any rate. Which makes me lean back toward a crank bearing. Also the manner in which the noise started seems to lend itself to crank bearing. But I’m not dead set on it yet. From what I’ve heard the crank bearings rarely fail in these.

I’m going to talk to some local GW folks next week and see what they recommend.
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