Zero Compression on Right Cylinders

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bigscheaf
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Zero Compression on Right Cylinders

#1

Post by bigscheaf »

So my 1983 GL1100 has been throwing fits trying to get up and going this season. I had decided since it was a 35 year old machine to replace some key components, so I replaced the thermostat, radiator hoses, timing belts, replaced the fork springs and swapped out the rear shocks, and rebuilt the front brake calipers and slapped on some new pads. Unfortunately, I haven't even been able to seat the new brake pads.

I'm pretty sure I know what's wrong, but I figured I'd get a second opinion from some fellow Wingers first. Initially when I had replaced the timing belts, I had used the wrong timing mark, since Honda thought it was a good idea to use the same cam gear on the Gold Wing as on an Accord in 1983. I tried spinning up the engine after getting the belt tension right and it felt like everything was turning over smoothly when turning the engine by hand. Well, it started, but it sounded like it was "ticking" on the right side of the motor.

At that point, I shut her down and hopped on good ol' Google to double check my work, which is when I found out about the Accord timing mark also being present. I readjusted the timing belt on the right side to align with the dimple rather than the raised line. Also adjusted the valves to spec, reinstalled the radiator and all that jazz, and got her running in my driveway again.

When running, there was a little more vibration than I remembered having before and there was some exhaust backfiring. She did, however, idle without much issue. I was so stoked to have her up and going, I decided to take her for a spin. Everything was going well getting out of my neighborhood - and the suspension felt great, by the way. I decided to hop onto the bypass close to my house and get a little bit of speed under her belt. At that point, I was only able to get up to about 4500 RPMs and a max of 55 MPH. I quickly realized that at this point I had messed up and thought it would be best to take the left at the exit and limp it home. Unfortunately, she decided she was done halfway through my left-hand turn, forcing me to push her to the side of the bridge and subsequently aggravate my fellow motorists. Eventually I found a break in traffic to push it to the other side of the road and onto the shoulder, after which a kind police officer followed me with his ambers on as I pushed it down the hill.

Since it sounded like it had run out of fuel, I swapped out the fuel filter, ensured the fuel pump was getting and pumping out fuel, checked that all four spark plugs were sparking, and put back in the paper filter - swapped for a K&N while doing my maintenance work. After checking all of that, rather than ripping out the carbs and dealing with that headache, I decided it was time to run a compression test on her. I started on the right cylinders initially and thought I had a broken gauge since the values were abysmal, but found that the left cylinders were reading much more accurately - done on a cold engine, as I'm sure you all could have guessed:

Cylinder #2: 155
Cylinder #4: 155
Cylinder #1: 30
Cylinder #3: 0 (maybe 2-5 since the needle jumped a little bit, but essentially negligible)

With the overall course of events, I'm left at believing that the valves are hosed and I need to pull of the right head. Prior to doing the compression test, I held a finger over each spark plug hole and felt approximately the same amount of air being pushed out.

After this long account of the events that occurred, anyone have any other ideas besides taking off the right head and inspecting everything up close and personal?
1983 GL1100 viewtopic.php?f=16&t=67673#
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Re: Zero Compression on Right Cylinders

#2

Post by RB »

yep SEEMS LIKE BENT VALVES//given what you said..re timing belts marks
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Re: Zero Compression on Right Cylinders

#3

Post by robin1731 »

Hopefully you didn't do more damage than you may have had by running it that way. I would say yes, at a minimum you have some bent valves. Maybe more after running it that long. Cross your fingers.

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Re: Zero Compression on Right Cylinders

#4

Post by gltriker »

A quick way to determine if valves are bent, would be to go back and check the valve clearance gaps.
The gap increases when a valve gets, "bent." :(
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

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Re: Zero Compression on Right Cylinders

#5

Post by bigscheaf »

I figured it would more than likely be bent valves at this point.

Cliff, I can certainly pop off the valve cover again and check the valve clearance. I had them removed before to verify the rocker arms were doing their job, but didn't think to check the clearances on them. Would it be a pretty significant change in gap if the valves were bent?
1983 GL1100 viewtopic.php?f=16&t=67673#
1981 CB900F (Resto-mod Project)
1979 CB750F (Wiseco 823)
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Re: Zero Compression on Right Cylinders

#6

Post by desertrefugee »

Given the description of the situation, I'd say just cut your losses (wasted time) and pull the head and get to work. Why spend time investigating what you know is a problem? ...unless timing is still off a tooth. Not sure that would drop the compression to zero, but that's about all the verification trouble I'd go to before pulling the head.
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Re: Zero Compression on Right Cylinders

#7

Post by bigscheaf »

Well desertrefugee, I tested the compression yesterday between calls - being on call for tech support sucks way more time than it should - and dropped off the exhaust yesterday. I figured it wouldn't be a bad to poll the audience while I was at work to see if there was anything I might be missing before doing something more invasive.

I read about a similar issue on GL1500s where the hydraulic valve adjusters would misadjust themselves, causing zero compression on all three cylinders on one of the heads. Their trick for fixing that was to pop it up onto the centerstand and slowing move the rear wheel in the opposite direction of travel in small increments. This would cause the HVAs to adjust back to the proper position. I believe the only 4 banger Wing that would work on would be the GL1200, but you never know what kind of off-the-wall tricks there are to fix an issue until you ask.
1983 GL1100 viewtopic.php?f=16&t=67673#
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1979 CB750F (Wiseco 823)
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Re: Zero Compression on Right Cylinders

#8

Post by desertrefugee »

Well, as Robin noted, your real concern will be if you've damaged a piston. Hopefully, that won't be the case, but I think it's probable that there's been contact. Valves usually bear the brunt of that contact. Luckily, a GL is one of the easiest motorcycles to pull a head from. I hope you find minimal damage.
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Re: Zero Compression on Right Cylinders

#9

Post by 5speed »

if he rolled it over by hand and didn't encounter any interference issues and had a "ticking" when he started it, redid the belt and has no compression..is it possible he has a stuck valve and not a bent one?
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Re: Zero Compression on Right Cylinders

#10

Post by Old Fogey »

One stuck valve wouldn't give that result on both cylinders. A stuck valve is usually a bent one too since there is minimal clearance. Get that head off and check out what you have!
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Re: Zero Compression on Right Cylinders

#11

Post by bigscheaf »

With life being life, and a toddler and baby being who they are, I only got as far as removing the valve cover and timing and crankshaft bolt covers .

I already had the exhaust dropped and timing belt covers removed in preparation for this, so I have that going for me. And now I'm justified in slapping on the GL1200 headers I have and slipping on the Sportster mufflers I got from a friend. The exhaust was going to be more of a rainy day project since I still need to have my brother sandblast the headers and get them cleaned up.
1983 GL1100 viewtopic.php?f=16&t=67673#
1981 CB900F (Resto-mod Project)
1979 CB750F (Wiseco 823)
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Re: Zero Compression on Right Cylinders

#12

Post by 5speed »

Old Fogey wrote:One stuck valve wouldn't give that result on both cylinders. A stuck valve is usually a bent one too since there is minimal clearance. Get that head off and check out what you have!
um..I missed the low compression on the second cylinder.. :oops:
1982 1100 standard. (sold)
1986 Yamaha FJ1200
2000 Yamaha Roadstar
1976 GoldWing. running but not on the road
1978 Goldwing. future cafe project.
2019 Can-Am ryker (boss's new ride)

2002 Shadow American Classic(sold)
1983 Shadow 500. (sold)
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Re: Zero Compression on Right Cylinders

#13

Post by bigscheaf »

Per usual, I really wasn't able to touch the bike much during my week of on call, and now it's off to guards for the weekend. At least I'm to the point where I just need to loosen the bolts for the head itself and pull it off. Don't worry, gentlemen, I'll have an update - more than likely with pictures - once I get back to it either Sunday or Monday night.

After removing the right-hand cam gear and seeing it's identical to the left one, it's made me wonder why they couldn't have just split the difference with the marking on the gear and used the same one on both sides. Looks like it would be a little less than a tooth off if one were to flip it over to make it so there was only one timing mark on the right-hand cam gear.

I have to say though, the boxer 4 in the Wing has to be one of the easiest engines to work on for head work. I can't account for clutch or anything at the rear of the engine yet since the hydraulic clutch conversion won't be happening until this fall/winter, but so far the heads have been a breeze.
1983 GL1100 viewtopic.php?f=16&t=67673#
1981 CB900F (Resto-mod Project)
1979 CB750F (Wiseco 823)
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Re: Zero Compression on Right Cylinders

#14

Post by bigscheaf »

Didn't get to take any pictures last night as my phone decided to die with 30% battery left. Way to go, Apple.

So after examining the right head and cylinders, I believe there was also an issue with the head gasket, as there was coolant in both cylinders and everything had a cleaner appearance. This may also explain the cleaner appearance of the spark plugs for those two cylinders. Nothing looked quite steam cleaned, though. In comparison to the left head and cylinders, everything was much cleaner.

As for the valves, all of them were seated properly into the head when I pulled them. I'll grab a valve compressor from Harbor Freight after work and see if any of the valves appear to be bent. I did notice two slight indents on top of the right pistons, which I'll snap some pictures of tonight. My question with the pistons, is it acceptable to have a slight damage from the valves as long as there's no holes, or would they require replacing as well? Most of my experience is more so with replacing head gaskets and things of that nature rather than full rebuilds.
1983 GL1100 viewtopic.php?f=16&t=67673#
1981 CB900F (Resto-mod Project)
1979 CB750F (Wiseco 823)
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Re: Zero Compression on Right Cylinders

#15

Post by robin1731 »

A touch on the piston is ok. I would take some fine sand paper or something and smooth it out though if there are any sharp edges. Sharp edges leave a place for pre-ignition/hot spots. Nothing fancy, just get rid of any sharp points. I'd put valve seals in while your at it too.

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1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
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