Water pump leak. Again

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toomanybikes
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Re: Water pump leak. Again

#31

Post by toomanybikes »

toomanybikes wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:19 am
rcmatt007 wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:05 pm oil can leak from three sources. O-ring n the pump, seal on the pump and the crush washers where the pump is bolted on. Coolant from two sources, O-ring on pump and front seal
there does not appear to be any coolant leaking from the weep hole, but i'll replace the main oring anyway.
Covered in diff thread, but posting here to close loop. My leak was likely coming from damaged seal on the water pump. Loose ball bearings shown in image. New water pump on the way and gasket kit already in hand.
waterpump2.jpg
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Re: Water pump leak. Again

#32

Post by toomanybikes »

Going back to this old-ish thread.

Installing the new water pump and even 7ft-lb of torque is causing the crush washers to splay out way past the bolt heads. Originally they did not splay out that far.

Does that level of crush deformation seem normal or could my Pittsburgh torque wrench be off? I first installed them using a small (5" handle) 1/4" drive ratchet, but wanted to get the torque set correctly so I switched to the Pittsburgh unit. I was surprised the amount of effort it took to reach the point where the torque wrench "clicked".

The outer two bolts are using the crush washers from the rebuild kit while the middle one re-uses an original washer. I realize re-using a crush washer is a no-no, but the rebuild kit one was massively deformed and I wanted to perform a test. I'll get some replacement washers tomorrow.

Given the hassle of pulling off the cover, I want to make sure it's torqued correctly. I've found a spec of 9 ft-lbs, but even 7 seems excessive, at least on my wrench.

I have this wrench ... https://www.amazon.com/Drive-Click-Type ... 4529&psc=1
PXL_20210524_222049522.jpg
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Re: Water pump leak. Again

#33

Post by flyin900 »

An inch pounds wrench is best for any torque below 10 ft lbs. I find the cheap Chinese torque wrench stuff can be hit and miss. Even though that wrench says down to 5 ft lbs, I would suspect it is off. An 8-9 ft lb torque is hand tight with a little effort on the twist. Very subjective that statement, especially for Popeye, yet I have torqued enough bolts over the years that I now have a good feel for anything under 10 ft lbs.
I did invest in an inch pound torque wrench, as I do a lot of bike restorations every year. The inch pound wrench really showed me how inaccurate my 3/8" drive 10-80 ft lb wrench was on those smaller number torque requirements.
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Re: Water pump leak. Again

#34

Post by Whiskerfish »

I have not seen a torque value for those 3 bolts??? Curious where you found one? I have always used 80-90 Inch pounds based of the torques given for similar sized bolts. But yes I agree that using a foot pound wrench that low is highly suspect.
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Re: Water pump leak. Again

#35

Post by toomanybikes »

flyin900 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 7:15 pm An inch pounds wrench is best for any torque below 10 ft lbs. I find the cheap Chinese torque wrench stuff can be hit and miss. Even though that wrench says down to 5 ft lbs, I would suspect it is off. An 8-9 ft lb torque is hand tight with a little effort on the twist. Very subjective that statement, especially for Popeye, yet I have torqued enough bolts over the years that I now have a good feel for anything under 10 ft lbs.
I did invest in an inch pound torque wrench, as I do a lot of bike restorations every year. The inch pound wrench really showed me how inaccurate my 3/8" drive 10-80 ft lb wrench was on those smaller number torque requirements.
Thanks. I probably had it close enough with my original estimate using the small 5" ratchet with 1/4" drive.

I have some misc copper sealing washers, but their 10mm OD is noticeably smaller than both the original and aftermarket aluminum washers. Should I trust them or try to find something closer to the original, aluminum and a little larger OD? I've already annealed them with a propane torch.

The closest m/c shops are Yamaha and KTM dealers.
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Re: Water pump leak. Again

#36

Post by Shadowjack »

Honda publishes standardized torque tables for common bolts in almost all of its manuals. If there's no specific value given for a particular bolt, you look the size up in the table and use that.
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Re: Water pump leak. Again

#37

Post by Rat »

I’ve found that some aftermarket aluminum crush washers were poorly sized, the ID was too large and the washer could get off centre when tightened.
I use a 1/4” short ratchet and just tighten them 'enough' ...
In your original pic they look too tight by a 'smidge' ...

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Re: Water pump leak. Again

#38

Post by 77Gowing »

If you could only get a torquemeter that reads out in smidges.
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Re: Water pump leak. Again

#39

Post by toomanybikes »

UPDATE - To capture for posterity, another web source indicated that this application uses aluminum washers since the copper may cause galvanic corrosion of the aluminum engine case. Details in quote below.

I have a batch of Al washers and a 1/4" drive torque wrench with lower operating range arriving soon.

"The reason for the aluminum washer is to prevent galvanic corrosion from occurring. The copper has a significantly lower anodic index than aluminum, and as such when it is in contact (even indirect contact) with the coolant (an electrolyte) and the aluminum engine case it will induce corrosion in the aluminum.

It can corrode so badly that when you go to remove those bolts, the case where they are bolted will have disintegrated. It can be less severe and just cause weakened threads, etc. but it's going to eventually cause a problem. Depending on the severity, this can cause other reactions in the surrounding area or the cooling system as well."
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Re: Water pump leak. Again

#40

Post by Rat »

Good info, thanks ...

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