Hanging idle

[ericheath]

Wow, john, I'm sure it works because you've done it, but it sounds like guess work to me. I don't have any points bikes left, but if I do, I want to try that.

[jdvorchak]

Yes it works and I find it much easier than setting point gap then rotating the mount plate for 2 cylinders then trying to split the difference on the other set of points resulting in a compromise timing. This method is exact for both sets of points!

Now I'm sure some critics will talk about dwell angle and point gap being critical. But frankly all I care about is that the points remain closed until time to fire and I could not care less about gap or dwell angle. So far this method works up to 9500 RPM with no ill effects that I can see.

One note: Don't forget to put a light high temp grease on the cam! Points only last a few thousand miles anyway so with lube you can extend the life of the wear block/points.

[BlueThunder]

John, have you ever measured the point gap after using this method? I'll bet that they are within specs. I plan on trying this method soon.

[millerdog]

I am definitely trying this when I get my new points. Seems to greatly simplify things. Sometimes Clymer can be more of a hindrance than help!!

[millerdog]

Just got my new black bomber points in. They do not have an extra ground strap. They are not Honda OEM, so maybe that's the problem?

[millerdog]

I'd like to here Randakks views on this. Very interesting...

[jdvorchak]

John, have you ever measured the point gap after using this method? I'll bet that they are within specs. I plan on trying this method soon.

No never did. I thought about it the first time I tried it but in reality I don't care what the point gap is. Also my Sun timing light showed me timing was spot on when at idle and full advance when above 4k RPM so I saw no need to try and figure out where the widest gap was and what it measured.

You have to remember that the point gap spec is always a range of measurements. Like 14 to 16 thousandths. It is also dependent on how much or little drag the technician puts on the feeler gauge. I'd be willing to bet that 3 or 4 different technicians setting the same set of points would each come up with a different actual measurement. Back in the old days I used to use the cellophane from a pack of cigarettes between the points and I'd set the engine crank at the F1 mark and while pulling on the cellophane adjust the points until the cellophane pulled free. I never seemed to be able to get point gap correct at like .016 so I quit trying. Then when working on Chevy's I'd never even touch the feeler gauges. I adjusted the point gap with a dwell meter and then set the distributor on the correct timing mark. Then the next time I replaced points all I had to do was adjust the dwell angle and the timing was spot on. Those old Chevy's had a window in the distributor and an allen wrench was used to adjust the points/dwell even with the engine running.

Now some of the old MoPar dual point distributors were a bear to set timing correct. The dwell angle was longer because each point fired only half the time. There again I used to use a piece of cellophane to adjust each set of points to fire at the right time not worrying about actual gap.

Now with a cheap test light I don't have to hunt a piece of cellophane up and with the light the opening of the points is more accurate.

[jdvorchak]

John, have you ever measured the point gap after using this method? I'll bet that they are within specs. I plan on trying this method soon.

No never did. I thought about it the first time I tried it but in reality I don't care what the point gap is. Also my Sun timing light showed me timing was spot on when at idle and full advance when above 4k RPM so I saw no need to try and figure out where the widest gap was and what it measured.

You have to remember that the point gap spec is always a range of measurements. Like 14 to 16 thousandths. It is also dependent on how much or little drag the technician puts on the feeler gauge. I'd be willing to bet that 3 or 4 different technicians setting the same set of points would each come up with a different actual measurement. Back in the old days I used to use the cellophane from a pack of cigarettes between the points and I'd set the engine crank at the F1 mark and while pulling on the cellophane adjust the points until the cellophane pulled free. I never seemed to be able to get point gap correct at like .016 so I quit trying. Then when working on Chevy's I'd never even touch the feeler gauges. I adjusted the point gap with a dwell meter and then set the distributor on the correct timing mark. Then the next time I replaced points all I had to do was adjust the dwell angle and the timing was spot on. Those old Chevy's had a window in the distributor and an allen wrench was used to adjust the points/dwell even with the engine running.

Now some of the old MoPar dual point distributors were a bear to set timing correct. The dwell angle was longer because each point fired only half the time. There again I used to use a piece of cellophane to adjust each set of points to fire at the right time not worrying about actual gap.

Now with a cheap test light I don't have to hunt a piece of cellophane up and with the light now gauging the opening of the points is more accurate.

[jdvorchak]

I'd like to here Randakks views on this. Very interesting...

I would as well. With all due respect to Randakk, I've never liked the idea of split timing when you can achieve perfect timing on both sets. Split timing to me just meant that neither set fired when they were supposed to. 1/2 of your engine is advanced time and 1/2 is retarded and none of it is right on.

Just a thought and I have no proof, but I wonder if split timing is the reason most GL1000 lope at idle.

[ericheath]

I think split timing has it's merit, because as Randall references a source that proves it is an anomaly to some Goldwings. The camshaft is flexing or out of round, or something is slightly off in the line bore. One revolution the timing mark is at one point, the next revolution it's different. You have to have a bike with 4-5 degrees difference to know how bad it can sound. My first bike was like this and the same cams are in my 1200 hybrid. With a Dyna, I still had to split the difference or it would sound terrible taking off without revving it up much. Currently I have the timing off the crank. I put a different head on the right side, but I assume the same is still happening at the shaft end. For kicks, I am going to pull the cover and watch it while running today. I wonder if it's visible?

[jdvorchak]

It would be visible with a timing light attached. They don't lie.

[ericheath]

I forgot to look at mine this morning. Getting my hair cut right now. When I put the light on mine before the PowerArc setup, I could see it. I put the light on the pulley marks. You're right, they don't lie.

[millerdog]

I've never looked at mine with a light while running. I can get it pretty spot on after MUCH fiddling. Turn the engine over a couple times, and if it still lights, I figure it's got to be close. After watching this video, I think it would eliminate a lot of the fiddling. Definitely going to try it. Although, mine is now running fantastic and I'm pretty unwilling to mess with it at the moment!

[Whiskerfish]

You can see it a bit on this one here. It is only a degree or two but I set the split in the middle. On my high mileage (original 78 engine) it was really significant. Like a half an inch or more. Made a serious difference when set to the middle.

[jdvorchak]

Although, mine is now running fantastic and I'm pretty unwilling to mess with it at the moment!

Look at my signature and don't fix it until it's broken! If it's running good, leave it alone and ride it.