Birthday mystery
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- Hal
- True Blue Steel Biker
- Posts: 2822
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:00 pm
- Location: France
Birthday mystery
I'm posting this here as you guys will have some insight into the 'oddity' of the event...assuming you've ever taken a Wing Keihin carb to bits!
I rebuilt the original 1976 carbs for our yellow rig last year, using a Randakk kit, and his excellent DVD. They worked brilliantly after the rebuild, the only slight problem being an intermittently sticking right-side choke mechanism.
After using the rig I realised it had an iffy head gasket, which then blew completely after a long trial run.
I then decided that as I had to strip the thing to do the heads, I might as well upgrade iit to '78 spec, and eventually I got all the bits together....both cams, the 78 carb rack, and the 78 ATU which as we all know goes under the points set on the back of the left cam, and advances & retards the ignition to suit the cam profile.
SO.....the heads are back on the rig, and I turned my attention to the carb rack. I'd already checked the float columns were all present and correct, as were all the bowl screws, which is a good sign.
I had hoped I could avoid rebuilding these carbs as it is a bit of a faff, so I ran a vacuum test on them, and both air and fuel circuits were leaking.....so I had to do a full rebuild. Luckily I had a spare Randakk rebuild kit.
On Tuesday 17th, my birthday, I took the float bowls off, and immediately noticed something was wrong.....I had one float which appeared to have no needle valve! I then realised that the fuel shut-off needle valve WAS there, but it wasn't attached to the little brass tongue on the float, and after removing the float by carefully drifting the hinge pin out, in two stages, I realised that the spring clip which attaches the needle valve to the float was missing.
Three carbs had the spring clip, one had no clip.
I removed all of the floats and compared the valve needles. I couldn't understand how the spring clip could have fallen off, as it seems unclear how it's attached to the valve....I tried removing the spring clip from another valve and couldn't get it off at all.
I put the 'naked' needle-valve in my large plastic parts tub, used specifically for this carb job, and empty at the beginning of the job, and went to the barn to retrieve my 1977 carb rack, which was on a top shelf needing ladder access. I brought the rack into the house, removed a needle valve from one carb and put it into the small parts tub for the carb with the problem, returning the 77 rack to the barn.
Yesterday I finished the reassembly, so all the bits were on the 78 rack and the big plastic bin was almost empty except for some tools and baggies, and I found, in the corner, a cutoff valve needle......WITH SPRING!!!!
I had seen this in the box on Tuesday but hadn't realised its significance, as I assumed it was one of the pieces still to go back in the last two carbs......but it isn't, it appears to be the 'naked' valve I'd put in the box earlier, which has by some mysterious means 'found' a spring clip!
Now, I'm well aware that this is a very peculiar situation, I had mentioned to my wife that I had a spring clip missing when I stripped the carbs on 14th and 15th, and she recalled this, but when I told her a spring had appeared from nowhere on the naked valve she couldn't accept the implications, and preferred to assume that I had made a mistake when I had seen one carb with no clip.....even though I'd removed the valve and examined it closely, and tried to remove the clip from another valve, concluding that it was beyond simple manipulation to get the thing off.
I realised the only "normal" explanation was that I'd removed TWO valves from the 77 rack, instead of the one single one which I recalled having removed, had fitted four into the 78, leaving one in the bin with the clip on it, and tossing the naked one into the kitchen rubbish bin.
If this was the explanation, then I should find two valves missing on the 77 rack in the barn, so this morning, to clarify this odd situation, I recovered the 77 rack from the top shelf of the barn racking, and removed all four float bowls.
I found three valves and springs intact! (The photo was taken later, and does show 4)
I know what I saw, a spring was missing from a rack I'd bought off the internet, and now it's back on the needle valve.
To make 100% sure this is either the same naked valve which has 'found' a spring,, or to see if it's a NEW valve and spring, and to be 100% certain I didn't toss the naked valve into the bin, I did a full forensic examination of the bin, removing every particle of hair, broken crockery, tea-leaves, plastic bags, bits of carb I had deliberately tossed like the float gaskets and the kidney shaped seals, jet O rings and runner O rings....a nasty job, but I wanted to be 100% clear what has happened and cover all the bases.
There was no naked valve in the bin.
Anyone on here removed the spring clip from a Keihin GL1000 fuel shutoff needle valve?
Here's the valve with spring....looks as if it's easy enough to get the spring off, in fact, but the point is, mine was mising....it had been reassembled without the spring.
I rebuilt the original 1976 carbs for our yellow rig last year, using a Randakk kit, and his excellent DVD. They worked brilliantly after the rebuild, the only slight problem being an intermittently sticking right-side choke mechanism.
After using the rig I realised it had an iffy head gasket, which then blew completely after a long trial run.
I then decided that as I had to strip the thing to do the heads, I might as well upgrade iit to '78 spec, and eventually I got all the bits together....both cams, the 78 carb rack, and the 78 ATU which as we all know goes under the points set on the back of the left cam, and advances & retards the ignition to suit the cam profile.
SO.....the heads are back on the rig, and I turned my attention to the carb rack. I'd already checked the float columns were all present and correct, as were all the bowl screws, which is a good sign.
I had hoped I could avoid rebuilding these carbs as it is a bit of a faff, so I ran a vacuum test on them, and both air and fuel circuits were leaking.....so I had to do a full rebuild. Luckily I had a spare Randakk rebuild kit.
On Tuesday 17th, my birthday, I took the float bowls off, and immediately noticed something was wrong.....I had one float which appeared to have no needle valve! I then realised that the fuel shut-off needle valve WAS there, but it wasn't attached to the little brass tongue on the float, and after removing the float by carefully drifting the hinge pin out, in two stages, I realised that the spring clip which attaches the needle valve to the float was missing.
Three carbs had the spring clip, one had no clip.
I removed all of the floats and compared the valve needles. I couldn't understand how the spring clip could have fallen off, as it seems unclear how it's attached to the valve....I tried removing the spring clip from another valve and couldn't get it off at all.
I put the 'naked' needle-valve in my large plastic parts tub, used specifically for this carb job, and empty at the beginning of the job, and went to the barn to retrieve my 1977 carb rack, which was on a top shelf needing ladder access. I brought the rack into the house, removed a needle valve from one carb and put it into the small parts tub for the carb with the problem, returning the 77 rack to the barn.
Yesterday I finished the reassembly, so all the bits were on the 78 rack and the big plastic bin was almost empty except for some tools and baggies, and I found, in the corner, a cutoff valve needle......WITH SPRING!!!!
I had seen this in the box on Tuesday but hadn't realised its significance, as I assumed it was one of the pieces still to go back in the last two carbs......but it isn't, it appears to be the 'naked' valve I'd put in the box earlier, which has by some mysterious means 'found' a spring clip!
Now, I'm well aware that this is a very peculiar situation, I had mentioned to my wife that I had a spring clip missing when I stripped the carbs on 14th and 15th, and she recalled this, but when I told her a spring had appeared from nowhere on the naked valve she couldn't accept the implications, and preferred to assume that I had made a mistake when I had seen one carb with no clip.....even though I'd removed the valve and examined it closely, and tried to remove the clip from another valve, concluding that it was beyond simple manipulation to get the thing off.
I realised the only "normal" explanation was that I'd removed TWO valves from the 77 rack, instead of the one single one which I recalled having removed, had fitted four into the 78, leaving one in the bin with the clip on it, and tossing the naked one into the kitchen rubbish bin.
If this was the explanation, then I should find two valves missing on the 77 rack in the barn, so this morning, to clarify this odd situation, I recovered the 77 rack from the top shelf of the barn racking, and removed all four float bowls.
I found three valves and springs intact! (The photo was taken later, and does show 4)
I know what I saw, a spring was missing from a rack I'd bought off the internet, and now it's back on the needle valve.
To make 100% sure this is either the same naked valve which has 'found' a spring,, or to see if it's a NEW valve and spring, and to be 100% certain I didn't toss the naked valve into the bin, I did a full forensic examination of the bin, removing every particle of hair, broken crockery, tea-leaves, plastic bags, bits of carb I had deliberately tossed like the float gaskets and the kidney shaped seals, jet O rings and runner O rings....a nasty job, but I wanted to be 100% clear what has happened and cover all the bases.
There was no naked valve in the bin.
Anyone on here removed the spring clip from a Keihin GL1000 fuel shutoff needle valve?
Here's the valve with spring....looks as if it's easy enough to get the spring off, in fact, but the point is, mine was mising....it had been reassembled without the spring.
Last edited by Hal on Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"The Moving Finger writes, and having writ, moves on,
nor all your Piety nor Wit
can lure it back to cancel half a line...
so....probably best use Tipp-Ex in future?"
1977 GL1000 in bits
1978 SR 500 Yam
1995 Harley Sportster/Buell street-tracker
1992 Grinnall Scorpion SC3 prototype
2002 Caterham SV 220 Evo (4 wheeled motorcycle)
Hal's Nalbum
nor all your Piety nor Wit
can lure it back to cancel half a line...
so....probably best use Tipp-Ex in future?"
1977 GL1000 in bits
1978 SR 500 Yam
1995 Harley Sportster/Buell street-tracker
1992 Grinnall Scorpion SC3 prototype
2002 Caterham SV 220 Evo (4 wheeled motorcycle)
Hal's Nalbum
- gregforesi
- Honored Life Member
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- Location: Venice, FL
Re: Birthday mystery
Somehow this seems to apply...
"Getting old ain't for sissy's" - Phyllis Diller
"Getting old ain't for sissy's" - Phyllis Diller
2006 GL1800 (Brutus Maximus)
1978 GL1000 (White Trash - 2012 BOTY
(If you want to discuss the Trashmobile, Webers, Rearsets, Clubmans, or other stuff then send me a PM.)
"Getting old ain't for sissies" - Phyllis Diller
"So how much you gonna spend to win that $5 trophy?" - Cyborg
1978 GL1000 (White Trash - 2012 BOTY
(If you want to discuss the Trashmobile, Webers, Rearsets, Clubmans, or other stuff then send me a PM.)
"Getting old ain't for sissies" - Phyllis Diller
"So how much you gonna spend to win that $5 trophy?" - Cyborg
- gltriker
- Honored Life Member
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- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:11 pm
- Location: central NY State
Re: Birthday mystery
Happy belated birthday wishes.
Cliff (74yrs )
Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday.
New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^
RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT Me Too!!
Cliff
'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome
previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday.
New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^
RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT Me Too!!
Cliff
'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome
previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
- taylorsel
- Silver Member
- Posts: 655
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:44 am
- Location: Winchester, VA
Re: Birthday mystery
My wife is always reminding me that reality is not as I remember it.
STEVE LOGAN, 1979 GOLDWING, 1978 GOLDWING, 1976 GOLDWING
- Hal
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- Location: France
Re: Birthday mystery
......and there's me thinking it was a birfday gift to me from 'The Other Side'!
"The Moving Finger writes, and having writ, moves on,
nor all your Piety nor Wit
can lure it back to cancel half a line...
so....probably best use Tipp-Ex in future?"
1977 GL1000 in bits
1978 SR 500 Yam
1995 Harley Sportster/Buell street-tracker
1992 Grinnall Scorpion SC3 prototype
2002 Caterham SV 220 Evo (4 wheeled motorcycle)
Hal's Nalbum
nor all your Piety nor Wit
can lure it back to cancel half a line...
so....probably best use Tipp-Ex in future?"
1977 GL1000 in bits
1978 SR 500 Yam
1995 Harley Sportster/Buell street-tracker
1992 Grinnall Scorpion SC3 prototype
2002 Caterham SV 220 Evo (4 wheeled motorcycle)
Hal's Nalbum
- taylorsel
- Silver Member
- Posts: 655
- Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:44 am
- Location: Winchester, VA
Re: Birthday mystery
Who knows, Maybe it was a ghost or an elve or somting. Elves make cookies and shoes maybe there are some carb elves around.
STEVE LOGAN, 1979 GOLDWING, 1978 GOLDWING, 1976 GOLDWING
- Lefty
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- Location: Durango Colorado
Re: Birthday mystery
Belated Happy Birthday. Truth is stranger than fiction. ( whatever that means ). I am still pondering the mystery.
Been riding Hondas since 1964.
Current bikes:
1985 GL1200i work in progress.
2002 CB750 Nighthawk
Current bikes:
1985 GL1200i work in progress.
2002 CB750 Nighthawk
- drumgod
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Re: Birthday mystery
I've found unexpected/extra parts in the bottom of my ultrasonic cleaner before. My theory is that the parts in question were tangled/stuck/hidden in the parts I was cleaning. e.g. Someone dropped an extra screw into the carb rack and couldn't find it so they got a replacement. Then, I clean it and the extra (lost) screw is dislodged... That's my theory anyway.
'81 GL1100
'77 GL1000
'76 CB550K
'77 GL1000
'76 CB550K
- roncar
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Re: Birthday mystery
It's the garage black hole theory. I lose a carb screw in my garage, and it reappears in your sonic cleaner.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
- sunnbobb
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Re: Birthday mystery
hmmm.. I can share my theory that socks missing in the dry turn into spring clips in the shop!
I found the end of the internet
---- Bradshaw Bikes custom polishing for your wing. Visit us on facebook!
1978 Learning Experience
1980 County Road Hauler "Brain Damage"
1978 Cafe Custom Gl1000 "Vyper"
1977 Bulldog Inspired "Vaincre"
1981 Street Fighter GL1100 "No Quarter"
1983 Supercharged Street Drag "Anubis" (in worx)
1983 gl1100 mint restoration "Kristen"
1985 Aspencade..pondering.
---- Bradshaw Bikes custom polishing for your wing. Visit us on facebook!
1978 Learning Experience
1980 County Road Hauler "Brain Damage"
1978 Cafe Custom Gl1000 "Vyper"
1977 Bulldog Inspired "Vaincre"
1981 Street Fighter GL1100 "No Quarter"
1983 Supercharged Street Drag "Anubis" (in worx)
1983 gl1100 mint restoration "Kristen"
1985 Aspencade..pondering.
-
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- Location: South Western, Ontario Canada
Re: Birthday mystery
I'm thinking of wormholes, entanglement theories and quantum mechanics
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.
Addicted to Honda's
Addicted to Honda's
- pistolpete
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- CYBORG
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Re: Birthday mystery
i did some air brushing today, and was cleaning the tip etc, and lost a very small, but important, part. spent an hour looking for it. no luck. if it shows up in your cleaner, or any shop anywhere, let me know
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
- Hal
- True Blue Steel Biker
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Re: Birthday mystery
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention something.
Before I even started on the stripdown I had gone to the barn to look at the big cardboard tray I'd used for the last Wing carb rebuild.
I thought there might be something useful in it still....and I wasn't wrong!
There was nowt visible apart from a bit of vac tubing, but for some reason I picked the tray up and tilted it, and heard something rolling. As I couldn't see what was causing the noise, I realised it was under one of the 'flaps'.....so I lifted the flaps and found....the #35 pilot air jet which I had lost in the kitchen last time, when my jewellers loupe had fallen over and knocked a pile of pieces onto the kitchen floor!
We had searched the floor and surroundings for an hour back then.....so now it's back in its hole in the '77 carb rack, along with the naked cutoff valve and its Carb Elf gifted clip!
Who says life is boring and predictable?
Before I even started on the stripdown I had gone to the barn to look at the big cardboard tray I'd used for the last Wing carb rebuild.
I thought there might be something useful in it still....and I wasn't wrong!
There was nowt visible apart from a bit of vac tubing, but for some reason I picked the tray up and tilted it, and heard something rolling. As I couldn't see what was causing the noise, I realised it was under one of the 'flaps'.....so I lifted the flaps and found....the #35 pilot air jet which I had lost in the kitchen last time, when my jewellers loupe had fallen over and knocked a pile of pieces onto the kitchen floor!
We had searched the floor and surroundings for an hour back then.....so now it's back in its hole in the '77 carb rack, along with the naked cutoff valve and its Carb Elf gifted clip!
Who says life is boring and predictable?
"The Moving Finger writes, and having writ, moves on,
nor all your Piety nor Wit
can lure it back to cancel half a line...
so....probably best use Tipp-Ex in future?"
1977 GL1000 in bits
1978 SR 500 Yam
1995 Harley Sportster/Buell street-tracker
1992 Grinnall Scorpion SC3 prototype
2002 Caterham SV 220 Evo (4 wheeled motorcycle)
Hal's Nalbum
nor all your Piety nor Wit
can lure it back to cancel half a line...
so....probably best use Tipp-Ex in future?"
1977 GL1000 in bits
1978 SR 500 Yam
1995 Harley Sportster/Buell street-tracker
1992 Grinnall Scorpion SC3 prototype
2002 Caterham SV 220 Evo (4 wheeled motorcycle)
Hal's Nalbum
- duke182
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Re: Birthday mystery
So what I have gathered follows:
Gremlins take and elves give
Gremlins take and elves give
God bless those who protect our freedom, at every level
Knees in the breeze makes miles of smiles
"Strive for progress, not perfection"-a wise man
1984 1200 standard
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Knees in the breeze makes miles of smiles
"Strive for progress, not perfection"-a wise man
1984 1200 standard
click pic to see my gallery
vote in my poll