ignition points

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spiralout
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Re: ignition points

#16

Post by spiralout »

tlbranth wrote: Point gaps correct?
As far as my fat fingers can tell, both start out at .016" while on the highest point on the cam lobes. I usually set the time on the left side points first, then regap, check time, regap, etc. When I finally have the left points dialed in, there's not enough adjustment left on the right side sub-plate to break the contacts. I have to turn the sub-plate all the way clockwise (advancing, I think) then loosen the points screws and gently open the points with a finger until my static light comes on, then lock em down. Doing it this way leaves me with a .020-.022" gap by the time the lobe comes around to its high point. On top of this, I have one of the few engines that you don't have to split the timing on the 1/2 cyls. Mine has to be split on the 3/4 side. There's like a 5-6 degree difference each time the fly wheel comes around :-?
CYBORG wrote:spin the engine over and look at the end of the cam, for cam wobble.
Will do when I get a chance to get outside. Do I watch the bolt or what? Also, does what I described sound like problems with the cam?
Chris
-------------------------------
1975 GL1000
1980 GL1100i w/ '77 donor engine
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CYBORG
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Re: ignition points

#17

Post by CYBORG »

spiralout wrote:
tlbranth wrote: Point gaps correct?
As far as my fat fingers can tell, both start out at .016" while on the highest point on the cam lobes. I usually set the time on the left side points first, then regap, check time, regap, etc. When I finally have the left points dialed in, there's not enough adjustment left on the right side sub-plate to break the contacts. I have to turn the sub-plate all the way clockwise (advancing, I think) then loosen the points screws and gently open the points with a finger until my static light comes on, then lock em down. Doing it this way leaves me with a .020-.022" gap by the time the lobe comes around to its high point. On top of this, I have one of the few engines that you don't have to split the timing on the 1/2 cyls. Mine has to be split on the 3/4 side. There's like a 5-6 degree difference each time the fly wheel comes around :-?
CYBORG wrote:spin the engine over and look at the end of the cam, for cam wobble.
Will do when I get a chance to get outside. Do I watch the bolt or what? Also, does what I described sound like problems with the cam?
it could be. rocker arm pressure on the cam is different depending what valve is where. looking at the bolt might give a clue, but i would remove the points plate and the rotor, and watch the exact end of the cam for any deviation as it turns. along shot, but that would eliminate it as a cause
1978 custom GL1000
1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
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spiralout
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Re: ignition points

#18

Post by spiralout »

I pulled the points assembly off to check for cam wobble. Ign on, kill switch off, had someone hit the start button for me. Engine turned over a couple of times then CLUNK . Something hit hard on the right side and stopped it dead in it's tracks. :( :( :( Looks like my points are the least of my worries now. I doubt it's hydro lock because my float valves and needles are new OEM and there was less than a gallon of fuel in the tank. Sounded really mechanical to me, too. But at least it wasn't turning fast when it happened. Off to the cold shop to investigate...
Chris
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1975 GL1000
1980 GL1100i w/ '77 donor engine
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spiralout
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Re: ignition points

#19

Post by spiralout »

Well, it WAS hydro locked. #1 cyl was full of fuel. I rebuilt these carbs 1500 miles ago using OEM float valves and seats. None of the floats were binding on the pins, either. I did accidentally run the bowls dry yesterday though. That and last night was the coldest night yet. Looks like the float hung down when the bowl was empty. Any tips on how to proceed from here? Spin the motor with the plugs out and kill switch off to clear the fuel first with the carbs on or go straight to fixing the carb problem? And I'm guessing this calls for an oil change too.

And apologies to markus for jacking his thread.
Chris
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1975 GL1000
1980 GL1100i w/ '77 donor engine
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fish
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Re: ignition points

#20

Post by fish »

you are supposed to turn off the gas every time you shut off the bike.
I am brainstorming a way to make a electric or vacume fuel cutoff
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Re: ignition points

#21

Post by CYBORG »

spiralout wrote:Well, it WAS hydro locked. #1 cyl was full of fuel. I rebuilt these carbs 1500 miles ago using OEM float valves and seats. None of the floats were binding on the pins, either. I did accidentally run the bowls dry yesterday though. That and last night was the coldest night yet. Looks like the float hung down when the bowl was empty. Any tips on how to proceed from here? Spin the motor with the plugs out and kill switch off to clear the fuel first with the carbs on or go straight to fixing the carb problem? And I'm guessing this calls for an oil change too.

And apologies to markus for jacking his thread.
it might be a one time event due to the weather. i would turn the fuel of, and tap on the float bowls. i have had that happen, and after tapping on the float bowls with a screwdriver handle, it started working again, and was not a problem after that. but i would be sure to turn the fuel off when not in use. and yes, i would change the oil
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1977 custom with 1200 engine
1985 gl1200
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Re: ignition points

#22

Post by Toehead »

+1

Tap the carbs and get them free, change the oil, start it without the aircleaner in and look into the plenum for pooling.

Mine hung up once this spring, and were fine after I took them and cleaned them. Even with marine staybil in the tank the carbs had some nice green goo in them.
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NewWinger
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Re: ignition points

#23

Post by NewWinger »

spiralout wrote:
taylorsel wrote:mine are 3mm and I think 4mm long
Thanks. The points and sub-plate screws ended up being 4mm. All the ones available locally had heads to large to give the points arms enough movement so I ended up reusing the originals until I can source some different ones. Now, just to figure out why I can't get enough adjustment on the 3/4 side even with new OEM points with no wear on the "tabs"...

Thanks you just gave me a line on my problem which is the same as yours. I cannot get my 3/4 adjustment over far enough but am very close. I had to use a replacement and the head is quite large. Now to get a smaller 4mm headed screw. I threw away the original, it was really boogered up.
Funny, I posted this same issue a week or so ago and didn't get much help. Your post helped me though. Thanks a bunch.

BTW I was just able to get her starte but she obviously don't like the cold.
Kenny
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taylorsel
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Re: ignition points

#24

Post by taylorsel »

NewWinger wrote:
spiralout wrote:
taylorsel wrote:mine are 3mm and I think 4mm long
Thanks. The points and sub-plate screws ended up being 4mm. All the ones available locally had heads to large to give the points arms enough movement so I ended up reusing the originals until I can source some different ones. Now, just to figure out why I can't get enough adjustment on the 3/4 side even with new OEM points with no wear on the "tabs"...

Thanks you just gave me a line on my problem which is the same as yours. I cannot get my 3/4 adjustment over far enough but am very close. I had to use a replacement and the head is quite large. Now to get a smaller 4mm headed screw. I threw away the original, it was really boogered up.
Funny, I posted this same issue a week or so ago and didn't get much help. Your post helped me though. Thanks a bunch.

BTW I was just able to get her starte but she obviously don't like the cold.
none of my GLs like the cold
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tlbranth
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Re: ignition points

#25

Post by tlbranth »

[quote=
BTW I was just able to get her starte but she obviously don't like the cold.[/quote]

none of my GLs like the cold[/quote]


I don't think early Goldwings like much of anything.
Terry
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Re: ignition points

#26

Post by CYBORG »

i fired up cyborg for the first time in about two weeks. 34 degrees out. full choke. allowed the electric fuel pump to fill carbs. pushed the starter button, and did not hear the starter turn before it was running. but it did take about 5 minutes on half choke before it would take throttle correctly. raptor did not need choke. started the same. most do not act this well when its cold, i agree. i credit electric fuel pump,electronic ign, iredium plugs, a battery tender, and well tuned carbs and cams.
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1985 gl1200
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spiralout
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Re: ignition points

#27

Post by spiralout »

Update on my points/stuck float dealio.
I got the fuel out of the cylinders and the oil changed (the tainted oil smelled just like kerosene :shock: ) Tapping on the bowl freed the float as best as I can tell but I'm not taking ANY chances by leaving the petcock on again. I normally don't, but I'd switched to reserve after running the bowls dry and thought "Hey, it can't hurt since I have less than a gallon of fuel in there, right?" :IDTS:

Got out the static light again to see if I could get the timing and gaps a little closer. The 1/2 side gap checked out at .016" and timing was dead on the F1 mark. The 3/4 was at .022" and the timing was off by a few degrees. Regapped to .016" and that brought the timing split to about 1 degree before and 3 degrees behind without moving the subplate. That's the closest it's ever been. I've had the same problem on the 3/4 points a couple of times after removing them for what ever reasons. :-?

It was running so well, I couldn't resist a test ride even though it was 35 degrees and a heavy drizzle. I did about 10 miles on the reserve (this is the first time I've run on reserve since doing the carbs and derusting the tank 4 months ago). It ran the best it ever had since I got the bike! Replacing the condensers and old mushroom shaped, burned, pitted points that arced every time they opened made a heck of a difference :lol: For about the last half mile it started sputtering like it was running out of fuel, then died as I was pulling into the driveway and wouldn't crank back up even though I shook the bike and heard fuel sloshing around in the tank. Went and got some in a can and still wouldn't start. Checked the fire and I had spark to all 4 plugs, pulled the fuel line off the carbs and got a steady pulse. Hmmm. Decided to try a shot of ether just to see. Still no start. Hmmm. I decided to call it a night and investigate in the morning. Then went back outside to double check the petcock ;)
This morning, the bike started right up even though it was in the mid 20's overnight! Heck of a surprise. After idling for about 5 minutes to warm up, I decided to take it for a short ride. Died before I got backed out of the driveway and wouldn't start, like it ran out of fuel again. For the heck of it, I turned the petcock to reserve and after turning over for a bit, it got fuel again and started. I thought OK, main pickup line is clogged or a petcock problem.
After idling a few more minutes on reserve, it dies again :-?
I decided to check the fuel filter and this is what I found...
Nasty stuff
Nasty stuff
PC_20131128_125406_hdr.jpg (63.93 KiB) Viewed 585 times
PC_20131128_125446_hdr.jpg
PC_20131128_125446_hdr.jpg (78.07 KiB) Viewed 585 times
Note the condition of the rubbers after only 4 months...
PC_20131128_130424_hdr.jpg
PC_20131128_130424_hdr.jpg (63.66 KiB) Viewed 585 times
Now to check how nasty the fuel pump is.
Chris
-------------------------------
1975 GL1000
1980 GL1100i w/ '77 donor engine
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