wiring help...one more time

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Whiskerfish
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#31

Post by Whiskerfish »

CYBORG wrote: i use a standard sealed beam from a two light car system. [has both high and low beam in one focased lens]. it has a wide narrow beam on low, and alittle wider on high. i can't out ride my light unless i'm going over 90mph. and i can replace it at any auto parts store, or walmart, in the country.
Yeup! Me too. If I were to add anything it would be some 35's that would work in conjunction with my High Beam for a bit more width close up for deer detection in the country.
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#32

Post by CYBORG »

oh ya....the deer thing. mine came from the side of the road at a full run out of the trees. i've been thinking, va. has passed some strange laws latly, why don't they make all deer wear reflective tape around the neck when out at night. can't hurt :lol: :lol:
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#33

Post by Whiskerfish »

Many times a deer incident is just absolutely unavoidable. Other times a extra half a second of visibility and time to react can make a huge difference.

I'd vote for reflective tape on them, how about the bright orange vests? tumb2
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Re: wiring help...one more time

#34

Post by curtis.71 »

So if u add a couple of driving lights just through a toggle switch with no relay will it cause a stator issue or other electrical problems?
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Re: wiring help...one more time

#35

Post by Sidecar Bob »

1) Whenever you turn a switch on or off an arc occurs at the contacts. The higher the current the bigger the spark. Bigger sparks make the contacts burn away faster so if you add extra lights to the headlight circuit the switch probably won't last as long. (Even if they have their own switch, if they are connected to the low beam circuit they will go off when you switch to high beam.Or vise versa if you connect them to the high beam circuit.)

2) If you try to draw too much current through too small a wire it will get hot and possibly melt the insulation and cause all sorts of problems.

3) Your alternator only makes so much power. If you use more than that (whether you use a relay or not) there won't be any left to keep the battery charged. If you have a halogen headlight and add two halogen driving lights that makes 165W, which is way too much.

The smart way to connect driving lights to a motorcycle

The better solution - I can finally really see the road at night!!!
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Re: wiring help...one more time

#36

Post by rcmatt007 »

as bob mentions a relay is to protect switches.

However, the stators on this bike only have so much umph (honda designed the stators to have enough umph to run the bike, they did not take into account all the extras people later added, which need more umph).... once the umph is used up (which stock pretty much does) there isn't any more umph... so the extra umph needed draws down your battery. The bottom line is this draws umoh from your battery (discharge) andd is seen in lower voltage.

so, e.g. my vetter bags have two running lights and two brake lights. when I pull up to a stop the extra umph needed to light the brake lights is mor than the total umph produced by the stator... the net effect is that needed umph isdrawn off the battery, but the result that can be seen, is that there is less voltage and the lights (headlight is noticable) dim.

I actually solved this by changing those lights to LED's which... need less umph
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Re: wiring help...one more time

#37

Post by Sagebrush »

So if u add a couple of driving lights just through a toggle switch with no relay will it cause a stator issue or other electrical problems?
I've added two 35w spot lights to both my 1100s and haven't experienced any charging issues with either of them. I do run power to them through a relay controlled by a small toggle switch located on the choke pull mount. I don't believe I would put 55w spot light on them because of the load on the alternator. Even so the 35w spot lights aimed about even with the low beam headlight and to the right and left of it make a huge difference.

The formula for figuring power consumption is P=I*E where P is power in watts, I is current in amps and E is voltage. To figure the size of the switch needed to run the two spotlights directly without a relay you would have 35w+35w = 70w. Divide the 70w by 12v and you get 5.83 amps. You would need a switch rated for larger than 5.8 amps, probably a 10amp is what I would go with. You would also need to fuse the circuit to just above 5.8 amps. I would go with a 7.5 amp fuse.
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Re: wiring help...one more time

#38

Post by Mike-C »

Gents;
I agree with S'Bobb, relays are required. I leaned that the hard way years and years ago. I put a set of driving lights on my '71 Chevy van without a relay. The switch was either defective or overloaded and it melted .. ON ... and I was driving down the highway blinding everybody until I could find a place to stop and pull the fuse. Also in your choice of 12V switch sources, you can tap the relay's trigger feed into your low beam or high beam so that the extra lights will only come on when that specific light is on. IE driving lights on high beams only and when you select low beam they go off.
By the way, Sunbobb's diagram is perfect. Good job.
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Re: wiring help...one more time

#39

Post by Sidecar Bob »

Speaking of alternator "umph", LEDs and extra loads:

1) The GL1000/1100 alternator is rated at 300W. It can't produce that unless the engine is turning over at something like 2500 or 3000 RPM.

Most of us have standard 55/60W H3 halogen bulbs in our headlights and somewhere over 30W of instrument lights, tail lights, marker lights &c. On top of that you need maybe 50-100W for your ignition (higher if you have an aftermarket ignition setup). Then you turn on the turn signals and they draw another 46W or so. Add another 23-46W (single or dual bulb) for the brake lights.

At idle the alternator produces more like 100W - with just the original electrical equipment that's not enough to power everything so the rest of the power has to come from the battery. If you are just sitting at a traffic light with your brakes on and your turn signals flashing for a couple of minutes you will probably notice the headlight dimming every time the signals flash, but that's OK because as soon as you pull away the output will go back up and your battery will recharge.

If you have 2 x 55W driving lights you will almost always be discharging the battery. With 2 x 35W on only at highway speeds you might get away with it but I wouldn't count on it. (BTW: Unless you have a voltmeter and maybe an ammeter you won't know if you have charging issues until you are stranded.)

2) I can't say this too often: If you are going to add driving lights, I highly recommend setting them up the way I described here, but if you really want to see the road in front of you forget wasting watts on driving lights and get a 4300-4500K HID unit and a modern reflector. I did (look here for what I did) and it works so well that I put LED bulbs in the driving lights so that I didn't have to remove them (I like the look so now they are just markers).

3) http://www.randakks.com/TechTip39.htm says "if you add extra electrical load beyond what Honda anticipated you will probably overwhelm the stator's output at idle. A strong battery can absorb this mild abuse for short stints of idling, but the reduced voltage won't allow adequate coil saturation and the resulting sparks at the plugs will be weak. Misfire is the typical result."

4) For the record, the only incandescent bulbs left on either of my bikes are the ones in the projector fog lights on Eccles, and I only use them if I am out at night in either fog or whiteouts. Everything else is either HID (so I can see better) or LED (so I can be seen better). I tried LED replacement bulbs but, while they draw less current, the ones I had didn't work well in the reflectors and provided less light than the incandescents so I have either replaced the lights with ones designed for LEDs or installed white LED panels in the existing lights. I also run a lawn tractor battery in the winter machine for extra cold cranking amps and so I don't have to charge the battery as often when I am using the handlebar heaters and the electric helmet shield a lot.
Last edited by Sidecar Bob on Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: wiring help...one more time

#40

Post by puffy75 »

You definitely need relays. You will burn up anything but a kill switch. Many handlebar light switches are toast because of this. I have many LED replacements on Puffy. I do not run my PIAs when below 2000RPMs. That is why I keep the switch at an easy to reach spot. XR650 kill switch on the handlebar that powers the relay that came with the PIAs.
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Re: wiring help...one more time

#41

Post by Sidecar Bob »

I use relays with my HIDs to get the most benefit from them (less ohms of wire & switches between the battery & the light=closer to full voltage at the light), but each of them actually draws substantially less current than the original headlight. In fact, my HID/LED setup, including the extra headlight & tail light on the sidecar and the extra running lights, uses about the same power as the stock setup did.
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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