Bad starter?

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redglbx
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Re: Bad starter?

#16

Post by redglbx »

All I use is AGM’s anymore and it seems that it’s not uncommon for an early failure (usually a cracked plate) but once you get past the initial hour or so they usually last a good long time. If it were me before I got into the starter I’d be checking the main fuse, they are notorious for having small racks in them that do exactly what you’re describing and particularly with the way your battery crapped out.

Start there and then I’d check the cables, they do go bad ! Make sure you are getting full battery voltage to the starter. Once you’re sure that you have full voltage to the starter then you need to pull the starter.

Problems can be the darn main lead fuse, the main relay, battery cables or don’t forget the ignition switch and my favorite, the starter button. You need to check them all with the way your battery died. By the way,,,, I’m curious what you paid for that “EBay” battery. Hope this all helps !
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Re: Bad starter?

#17

Post by Fred Camper »

Removing the Starter on the side stand helps keep the gear in place. It can be reinstalled with it upright but takes more alignment effort.
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CYBORG
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Re: Bad starter?

#18

Post by CYBORG »

tory wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:20 pm I've never pulled a starter without the bike on the side stand.
This bike is strapped straight up and down on a table.

Am I safe to pull the starter out like this?
As I recall the 78 has a captured starter gear. So yes. Still can be a little tricky
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Re: Bad starter?

#19

Post by tory »

redglbx wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 7:54 am All I use is AGM’s anymore and it seems that it’s not uncommon for an early failure (usually a cracked plate) but once you get past the initial hour or so they usually last a good long time. If it were me before I got into the starter I’d be checking the main fuse, they are notorious for having small racks in them that do exactly what you’re describing and particularly with the way your battery crapped out.

Start there and then I’d check the cables, they do go bad ! Make sure you are getting full battery voltage to the starter. Once you’re sure that you have full voltage to the starter then you need to pull the starter.
By the way,,,, I’m curious what you paid for that “EBay” battery. Hope this all helps !
Shouldn't the starter crank when I hook direct voltage to the post and ground the case? A car starter would.

I paid $62.85 fir the battery. It is a Caltric AGM
Last edited by tory on Sun Mar 26, 2023 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bad starter?

#20

Post by tory »

CYBORG wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:53 am
tory wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:20 pm I've never pulled a starter without the bike on the side stand.
This bike is strapped straight up and down on a table.

Am I safe to pull the starter out like this?
As I recall the 78 has a captured starter gear. So yes. Still can be a little tricky
Do you recommend I find help, and get it on its side stand before pulling it? Or go for it as it is?
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CYBORG
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Re: Bad starter?

#21

Post by CYBORG »

tory wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:05 am
CYBORG wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:53 am
tory wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 11:20 pm I've never pulled a starter without the bike on the side stand.
This bike is strapped straight up and down on a table.

Am I safe to pull the starter out like this?
As I recall the 78 has a captured starter gear. So yes. Still can be a little tricky
Do you recommend I find help, and get it on its side stand before pulling it? Or go for it as it is?
Side stand would be better, and safer. But I would make sure you have to pull it. check every thing else first. I would pull the plugs and see if it turns over.
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gltriker
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Re: Bad starter?

#22

Post by gltriker »

Although I haven't removed one of these GL starters, I've read about other folks have and also had great concerns about the starter chain and its drive sprocket . Worry not. They don't pose a problem. The starter motor shaft engages the starter chain sprocket with a mutual sliding spline arrangement. Starter motòr Reinstall engagement òf the two splines can be fiddly. That's all.

The greatest concern ìs the almost certain fact that if the thin hex nut located under starter cable isn't heĺd stationary with a thin open end wrench when loosening and tightening the top nut , the threaded stud may spin and an internal wire connection can be broken.
Last edited by gltriker on Sun Mar 26, 2023 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bad starter?

#23

Post by CYBORG »

gltriker wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 9:58 am Although I haven't removed one of these GL starters, I've read about other folks have and also had great concerns about the starter chain and its drive sprocket . Worry not. They don't pose a problem.

The greatest concern ìs the almost certain fact that if the thin hex nut located under starter cable isn't heĺd stationary with a thin open end wrench when loosening and tightening the top nut , the threaded stud may spin and an internal wire connection can be broken.
Good point. But even that can be repaired with silver solder
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Re: Bad starter?

#24

Post by rcmatt007 »

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Re: Bad starter?

#25

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

I know you've mentioned hooking up a booster directly to the starter to test it. Depending on the booster pack, that may not work. I have one that won't produce power without being tied to a battery.

Before you pull the starter, do confirm that you're getting power to the + lead that attaches to starter. I don't think I've read that you've confirmed that you're putting power to the starter from that lead when hitting the start button. (If there's no power at that end, you want to chase it back.)

Just use a test light or multimeter should give you the info.

If there's power at the starter and no start, then all the pull-the-starter advice applies.

Good luck.
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Re: Bad starter?

#26

Post by CYBORG »

NotSoLilCrippseys wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 3:15 pm I know you've mentioned hooking up a booster directly to the starter to test it. Depending on the booster pack, that may not work. I have one that won't produce power without being tied to a battery.

Before you pull the starter, do confirm that you're getting power to the + lead that attaches to starter. I don't think I've read that you've confirmed that you're putting power to the starter from that lead when hitting the start button. (If there's no power at that end, you want to chase it back.)

Just use a test light or multimeter should give you the info.

If there's power at the starter and no start, then all the pull-the-starter advice applies.

Good luck.
just make sure it is at least 12v
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Re: Bad starter?

#27

Post by pidjones »

A set of automotive jumper cables - one from - battery terminal to the frame of the starter, the other from the + terminal and tapping on the starter + terminal should eliminate the rest of the electrical system. Wear safety glasses - molten copper may fly from the sparking.
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Re: Bad starter?

#28

Post by Sidecar Bob »

It sounds like you have 2 problems, 1) a bad battery and 2) not cranking.

Definitely remove the plugs and see if the starter cranks with them out first. Make sure you turn the kill switch off before you try because if fuel sprays out of one of the cylinders you do NOT want any sparks near it (can you say "flamethrower"?)

If it still doesn't crank the next step is turning the engine with a wrench to make sure nothing inside it is preventing the starter motor from turning it.

Also, make absolutely sure the transmission is in neutral.

I went through a lot of starter problems on my 1000 engine over the years (eventually traced to a carb issue) and removed & installed the starter motors quite a few times. With the sidecar my bike is always upright and it didn't cause any problems.

I think the myth that the bike needs to be on the side stand when you remove the starter motor must have been started by someone who didn't understand the way the chain & sprocket fit inside the engine. If anything removing it while the bike is on the side stand would be harder because there is less room to work.

If you haven't already removed the starter motor note that you may need to remove one of the exhaust studs from the head to get it out.
Note that any replacement starter motor you get now will probably be a GL1100 spec, which has a slightly shorter housing so the stud doesn't need to be removed.
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Re: Bad starter?

#29

Post by tory »

Just an update.
I did put the bike in a High gear and can turn the motor with the back tire.

I do have continuity across the fuse blade on the solenoid.

The new battery is diffanitly bad. It was a brand new full charged Caltric AGM battery that cranked about 3 times for 4 seconds. Then on the forth attempt would not crank. On the 5th attempt all lights went out. (Oil, Nuetral, head light)

Battery showed 0 volts. Late last night it read 10.5. I left it on an AGM charger overnight and today it is at 10.5 still.

Battery seller is sending me a new battery. I will wait to pull starter until I get that.

Although I did try the booster on the starter, it may not have much charge on it either.
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Re: Bad starter?

#30

Post by NotSoLilCrippseys »

Heads up: Depending on the starter you acquire, you may have a clearance issue getting the starter out/in/lined up without pulling the header. I think the GL1000 starter is a bit longer/shorter than the GL1100. Don't panic if you get a new starter that doesn't seem "short" enough - or seems shorter. They interchange.

Also, plan to drop the header to buy a little room. Maybe you're lucky and it's not needed. But without pipes in the way, it's a lot easier to see what you're doing.

Here's Sidecar Bob, one of the true gurus:
Sidecar Bob wrote: Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:44 am The one I fixed is a Caltric (aftermarket) that was sold as fitting 1000 and 1100 so it is 1100 spec. It is the same length as the original 1100 starter. Both of the original 1000 starter motors I have are 3mm longer.
I think the holes in the block are in the same places on both engines but for some reason the mounting hole in the brush end of the original 1100 starter and the 1100 spec Caltric are elongated while the one on the 1000 starter is round.

I think it might be possible to get the starter motor out without removing the header if you supported the engine and removed the subframe but I haven't tried that.

Mine has had separate left & right exhaust systems since I put it together in '97 so I sometimes forget they aren't all like that :orange
Avatar is a summer '21 photo of the Blue Phoenix, our 1983 GL1100I rescue gone naked.

In the Stable and Ridable
1992 ST1100 - my longer haul tourer
1992 XJ600S - son's streetfighter
1987 VFR700 - son's latest, in blue/silver
1983 - GL1100I - naked Blue Phoenix (son's, really)
1982 GL1100I - naked bagger Cabernet
1979 GL1000 - Ginger Lynn, but not that Ginger Lynn (Wing and a Prayer)
1978 CB550K - son's cafe (carb issues still vex)

Active Project(s)
1979 GL1000 - Confirmed one owner, with original paperwork. Vetter fairing and bags, off the road in dry, heated storage for 35 years.

Sold
Not lookin' back to avoid regrets
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