'77 GL1000 bogs down then dies

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sebastien
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'77 GL1000 bogs down then dies

#1

Post by sebastien »

Hey all, hope riding season is treating you well! Any body have any opinions as to why the following may have happened?

-I was about 40 miles from home, when the engine started bogging down. I switched to reserve, because the trip meter distance was in the 140 mile range, and I remember needing to switch at 159 miles before.
-The bogging continued and got worse; my speed went slower and slower, despite having WOT.
-Eventually, the bike stalled.
-Another good samaritan biker got me about 2 gallons of gas, which I added.
-Started her up, all good, got up to 70mph, and maybe 1 min later, the bogging continued and the bike stalled again. Got about 3 miles further. Got 'er towed home.

My theories:
-lack of fuel issue (not sure, maybe I'll fully fill 'er up and see how that goes)
-ignition issue (pulled the plugs today, they looked normal). Battery voltage is 12.72V. I have Ignitech ignition.
-Fuel pump issue. I don't have a pressure gauge to check its pressure and have not tested its volume. (then how come it started up well after more fuel and a 30min delay and reached 70mph?)
-Blocked jet issue (then how come it started up well after more fuel and a 30min delay and reached 70mph?)
-dirty fuel filter (only has 1600 miles on it, and looks o.k)

Thoughts? Thanks in advance for reading!
1977 GL1000, 1981 GL500, 1984 Yamaha XS400J, 2009 DR650 (sold), 2004 Yamaha V-Star 650 (sold), 2001 Suzuki Bandit 1200 (sold), 2004 Honda CG125 (sold)
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Re: '77 GL1000 bogs down then dies

#2

Post by pidjones »

Easy thing is tank not venting properly. You vented it when removing the cap to add fuel. Could be getting fuel line plugged/collapsing, pump failing, filter clogged. You should avoid running much below 1/4 tank.
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Re: '77 GL1000 bogs down then dies

#3

Post by Whiskerfish »

You can try soaking the cap in some cleaner to see if that helps. Many of us just drill a very small hole in the fuel cap.
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Re: '77 GL1000 bogs down then dies

#4

Post by CYBORG »

Test that cap by taking a ride with the cap loose. More the likely it will not bog down. If thats the case, soak the cap.
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gltriker
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Re: '77 GL1000 bogs down then dies

#5

Post by gltriker »

sebastien wrote: Sat Jan 01, 2022 12:42 pm Hi all, to give you an update on things, I've started digging further into this bike as I had no parts, yet, to finish some sections. Here's the highlights (I did buy a 76 parts bike in November and started "involving" it into the 77 resurrection:

1. Discovered that carbs on my 77 are actually from an 1100. Since I've never seen the engine run, I don't know how well these carbs work on this bike. I guess I should rebuild them, but I decided to instead, remove the carbs from the 76, which are 758A, and rebuild those.
DSC_2667.jpg
No photos of the 76 carbs yet but took a quick peek in one fuel bowl and they looked dirty but acceptable. The 76's fuel filter was disgusting and the tank doesn't look great.

Sebastien
----
Sebastien, in your post dated Saturday May 07, 2022 it didn't sound like the carburetors had been completely disassembled and correctly serviced. At all. The fuel tank wasn't cleaned.

When you "took a quick peek in one fuel bowl" you had no inkling how much very fine rust mud had made its way past "the disgusting fuel filter" and has accumulated on the hidden, very fine filtering screen element attached to the inlet side of the float valve seat, located in all 4 carburetors. :(

----
DSCN1267.JPG
DSCN1267.JPG (17.61 KiB) Viewed 657 times
----
Many moons ago, A very wise fellow member gave me this advice:

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
Last edited by gltriker on Thu Aug 18, 2022 2:23 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

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RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
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gltriker
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Re: '77 GL1000 bogs down then dies

#6

Post by gltriker »

sebastien wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:27 pm snip-
-Another good samaritan biker got me about 2 gallons of gas, which I added.
-Started her up, all good, got up to 70mph, and maybe 1 min later, the bogging continued and the bike stalled again. Got about 3 miles further. Got 'er towed home.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance for reading!
On a correctly running engine, if the fuel valve lever is turned to the OFF position and unwittingly remains there, although each of the 4 carburetors' fuel bowl may have been technically 'full' you might be fortunate to ride a mile or two before the engine starves for gasoline. see the resemblance? ;)
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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dontwantapickle
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Re: '77 GL1000 bogs down then dies

#7

Post by dontwantapickle »

another possibility - old coil failing when it gets hot and starts working again when it cools down.
... just speculating.

First, because it could be starvation, I would take the fuel line off of the carburetor and crank the engine,
just to verify and see how much gas you actually got flowing through the system.
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gltriker
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Re: '77 GL1000 bogs down then dies

#8

Post by gltriker »

dontwantapickle wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:31 am another possibility - old coil failing when it gets hot and starts working again when it cools down.
... just speculating.

First, because it could be starvation, I would take the fuel line off of the carburetor and crank the engine,
just to verify and see how much gas you actually got flowing through the system.






Better yet, Completely Remove all 4 carburetors' fuel bowl drain screws and crank the engine. Watch for how much fuel (and rust fines) comes out of each drain hole while the the engine is cranking over.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: '77 GL1000 bogs down then dies

#9

Post by Sidecar Bob »

sebastien wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 6:27 pm -Fuel pump issue. I don't have a pressure gauge to check its pressure and have not tested its volume. (then how come it started up well after more fuel and a 30min delay and reached 70mph?)
Fuel will flow from the top half of the tank by gravity even if the pump is not capable of moving enough fuel. I found this out when I experimented with a vacuum powered fuel pump in 2008. When it felt like it needed to switch to Reserve I did but it still died as if it was out of fuel and no amount of cranking would get it to pump more through even though I could see the fuel when I took the cap off and looked in the tank.
The first time it happened my wife brought me some fuel and it fired right up. I ran it with the petcock on reserve long enough to verify that the issue wasn't in the petcock. The second time it happened as I pulled into my garage so I was able to do some testing and found that the pump wasn't up to the job. I changed back to the original mechanical pump and it worked normally after that.
(I did later rebuild an original fuel pump when I was preparing to add the sidecar and knew that the pump would have to work harder but that's another story).
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Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
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Re: '77 GL1000 bogs down then dies

#10

Post by redglbx »

One of the real negatives of today’s modern alcohol laced fuels is that when the bike is stored the fuel in the tank draws/absorbs water and seems to rust the tank fairly quickly, not good.

Personally a lot of the things spewed about today’s gas is just internet myth, the added alcohol is basically not a bad thing except for the water absorbtion . My .02

To make your GL run right the tank & the carbs must be spotlessly clean, can’t be clean enough ! So take your tank out if it’s rusty and either clean & seal it yourself or take it to a good radiator shop & pay them to do it. Can’t be clean enough and run a really good fuel filter.
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sebastien
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Re: '77 GL1000 bogs down then dies

#11

Post by sebastien »

Hey all, thanks for so much chiming in despite the great riding weather.

I was away for a bit so couldn't get to it and don't have it all fully fixed yet, but, oddly enough, when I push down on the intake tube of the fuel filter, I can see the rush of gas inside it, whereas it was no flowing well before this gentle push. I'll try taking and adding a pic to show this.

So, since it's only a 3 dollar filter from Princess Auto, (Canadian equivalent of Harbor Freight), I'm just going to change it and see if that solves the problem.

Cliff, you're right, I'm still running these 76 carbs that are not spotlessly clean and do have a Randakk's kit waiting for the rebuild. Just need to get around to it and was hoping I could at least finish the season with my current setup.

I'll let y'all know if I manage to do a quick fix and salvage the rest of riding season.

Sebastien
1977 GL1000, 1981 GL500, 1984 Yamaha XS400J, 2009 DR650 (sold), 2004 Yamaha V-Star 650 (sold), 2001 Suzuki Bandit 1200 (sold), 2004 Honda CG125 (sold)
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gltriker
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Re: '77 GL1000 bogs down then dies

#12

Post by gltriker »

tumb2 I was getting concerned crossy.gif
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

Keep your eyes and ears open and you'll learn something new, everyday. tumb2

New users please visit our "Shop Talk" for common tips and help: <---jdvorchak
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/page/ST
^^^^^^^click up here^^^^^ :oldies

RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
"And your carbs will thank you. They no longer live down stream from a sewage plant." -gregforesi tumb2
"Can't see the paint when your looking thru the handlebars..........." -Oldewing ;)
"I'd rather Ride than Shine" -RAT tumb2 Me Too!!

Cliff

'75 GL1000 home built trike; http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=39996
October,2017 BOTM :shock: https://nakedgoldwingsclub.com/forum/page/Welcome

previous rides:
1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
1980 CB900 Custom (triked) 1997-2003 .... R.I.P.
sebastien
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Re: '77 GL1000 bogs down then dies

#13

Post by sebastien »

Another update,

I tried the quick fix yesterday; changing the filter and both fuel lines that attach to it. Problem solved, got the bike up to 80mph on a 20-min test ride. I hope to go for a longer ride soon and imagine it will perform just fine. Some interesting observations when removing the old filter and line:

-filter didn't seem much dirtier than the new one. Only has 1600 miles on it.
-contents of filter didn't really drain all that well once tube-filter-tube assembly removed from bike. I put some compressed air in the upstream tube mouth in order to fully drain filter.
-Contents of filter had some "bubbles" of water inside. Surprising for such a small amount of gas and, considering that this was gas from an almost-full tank.
-Since filter wasn't all that dirty, my hypothesis is that, since bike wasn't ridden for most of July, water got absorbed into the gas (June/July are the wet season months here, but garage was bike-kept) over time. This water, when transiting through the filter, got adsorbed onto filter paper, thereby reducing flow of gasoline through this "wet" filter paper, since water and oil don't mix. Then again, maybe the filter is actually used up and therefore impeding flow. It is a $3 dollar filter, after all.
-Another possibility is that the hose clamp on the downstream end of the filter hadn't been tightened, so maybe it was a vacuum leak causing this. All hose clamps tightened on this new assembly.
-And another possibility is that I just ran the bike too low on the gas tank during the ride that led to this problem. At the bottom of the tank, the gas has water, and this water wreaked havoc on the fuel filter, binding to the cellulose fibers and restricting the flow. Pidjones, I agree with your advice: don't ride below 1/4 tank!

If any of you have any other ideas, I'm all ears, thanks for reading. By the way, I know there are many variables to consider in this, but, what kind of mileage do folks get out of an expensive OEM Honda fuel filter?

Cheers,

Sebastien
1977 GL1000, 1981 GL500, 1984 Yamaha XS400J, 2009 DR650 (sold), 2004 Yamaha V-Star 650 (sold), 2001 Suzuki Bandit 1200 (sold), 2004 Honda CG125 (sold)
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Sidecar Bob
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Re: '77 GL1000 bogs down then dies

#14

Post by Sidecar Bob »

There shouldn't be any water in your tank but the odd raindrop can enter if you fill up in the rain and if you ride in high humidity moisture from air that enters the tank as the fuel leaves can condense when it cools overnight and it will all settle to the bottom and since it can't evaporate through the fuel it will accumulate. Giving the water a chance to evaporate is one of the reasons I always recommend draining a bike's tank for storage (& preferably leaving the cap open for a day or 2).

It's also possible that you got some fuel with water in it; Perhaps the storage tank at the gas station was nearly empty (any water that gets in will sit at the bottom) or their filter was on poor condition. Or both.

Heck, I heard a rumour many years ago that the owner of a stations a few towns over from here was seen topping his storage tank with water on more than one occasion so if you went to a place you don't usually buy fuel at.....
Mr. Honda ('83 GL1100/Dnepr) summer How a motorcycle evolves thread
The Famous Eccles ('84 CX650EI/VeloUral) winter Never Ending Build (CX500forum)
Click: Colour schematics for all GL1000 & GL1100 and GL1200 standard models plus instructions on how to download the full size version
"A guy with two sidecars can't be all bad." - Cookie
Another guy with two sidecars..... Hmmmm... must be something to that....
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dontwantapickle
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Re: '77 GL1000 bogs down then dies

#15

Post by dontwantapickle »

There is water in everyone's gas tank.
Ethanol is extremely hygroscopic and will absorb moisture right out of the air.
Water bonds with the alcohol and sinks to the bottom of the tank because it is heavier than gasoline.

May be a lot... may be only a teaspoon full, but there IS water in your gas tank and it collects right where
the reserve pickup tube sucks up fuel.
Sucking that crap into the carbs is a very real possibility.

I'm Glad your issue is easy to fix.
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