Grinding/scratching noise clutch

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Barrie
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Grinding/scratching noise clutch

#1

Post by Barrie »

Dear all,

During a ride just now, I heard loud scratching or grinding noises when I pulled the clutch lever. It happened in city traffic, the engine was fully warmed up, and occurred during about a kilometer of driving. Scared that the enige might lock up, I drove the remaining kilometer or so to my home very slowly. This last part of the trip, there were no such sounds anymore.

I recently also had an issue with the oil-light (LED replacement) coming on faintly. This seemed fixed after cleaning the switch, but now I'm worried there might be something wrong.

I need some advice on how to proceed. Could this have to do with clutch adjustment? Would tje clutch be disintegrating? What else could this be?
1976 Gran' Luxe 1000. Once red, now orange, soon yellow...
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desertrefugee
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Re: Grinding/scratching noise clutch

#2

Post by desertrefugee »

Hmm. Don't know, Barrie, but clutch problems don't happen often. They are durable. I suppose you might have broken a spring or had some other mechanical failure in there. If it's not intermittent and is fairly ugly sounding, you have no choice but to pull the cover and eyeball it.

Just hope it's not something that would require the basket to come out. Can't do that with the engine in the frame.

Good luck!
'97 Valkyrie, '86 VMax, '83 ZG1300-6, ‘82 CX500 Turbo, ‘79 CBX, ‘78 GL1000, '78 750F Project

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Barrie
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Re: Grinding/scratching noise clutch

#3

Post by Barrie »

desertrefugee wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:46 am I suppose you might have broken a spring or had some other mechanical failure in there. If it's not intermittent and is fairly ugly sounding, you have no choice but to pull the cover and eyeball it.
That's what I was afraid of... :(
1976 Gran' Luxe 1000. Once red, now orange, soon yellow...
cfairweather
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Re: Grinding/scratching noise clutch

#4

Post by cfairweather »

Once you examine the clutch plates you need to clean the oil screen and the entire engine if there is damage. I suspect the rivets on clutch plate B failed. If so, make sure you replace it with the modified version which has teeth on both plates. The modification was done in 1977. The early plates had teeth on only one plate and this caused the rivets to fail. This also explains your oil light issue.
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Barrie
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Re: Grinding/scratching noise clutch

#5

Post by Barrie »

cfairweather wrote: Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:20 pm Once you examine the clutch plates you need to clean the oil screen and the entire engine if there is damage. I suspect the rivets on clutch plate B failed. If so, make sure you replace it with the modified version which has teeth on both plates. The modification was done in 1977. The early plates had teeth on only one plate and this caused the rivets to fail. This also explains your oil light issue.
Thanks, I'll investigate... if this is the case, then the scavenge pump is probably shot too, explaining the oil light issue -that's what you mean, right?
1976 Gran' Luxe 1000. Once red, now orange, soon yellow...
cfairweather
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Re: Grinding/scratching noise clutch

#6

Post by cfairweather »

The scavenger pump, chain and sprocket may be damaged, but I doubt it. You probably just need to clean out the engine and it will probably be fine. If the oil screen is mostly plugged, the oil light would come on and I think you will find it is plugged.
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Barrie
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Re: Grinding/scratching noise clutch

#7

Post by Barrie »

Today I took apart the the clutch, with the engine in frame method suggested by desertrefugee (as described by Octane/Randakk). Having done this, I think it is actually easier, and certainly less frustrating, to take the engine out of the frame :x !

Anyway, when I finally had the center part and the plates out, it turned out they were perfectly fine (clutch plate B image below for improved reading pleasure). Also, there was no debris anywhere in the clutch chamber, nor in the oil filter, and when I turned the engine with the kick starter, there were no weird noises.

What should I do, take the engine out and investigate further? Could it have been something harmless? The noises were horrible, but after the noises, I still rode for a bit without any noises or problems. Advice and other suggestions what the roblem could be/have been are much appreciated!

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77Gowing
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Re: Grinding/scratching noise clutch

#8

Post by 77Gowing »

Your faint oil pressure light issue.
Does this happen at engine speeds above Idle? My oil pressure light flickers at idle after engine temp is up to normal. A guru, on this forum who has 400 K miles, told me that it is something that can be corrected by adjusting the oil bypass spring on the oil pump. It is my understanding that adjusting the bypass spring will increase the oil pressure of your engine. I intend to do this to my 77 when I get a chance. Above idle my light stays off. When I get around to mounting my gauges, then I will know for sure what my oil pressure is.
I believe your problems are not related. I am not a guru, & not sure what your isolated incident for tells. I am not given to tearing apart my engines evertime I hear a single isolated sound. Especially, if it only happens once. Of course, if such things happen, I listen and observe until I can replicate the circumstances.
Aka, I'd ride it.
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Barrie
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Re: Grinding/scratching noise clutch

#9

Post by Barrie »

Hi 77GoWing, the oil pressure light was very faintly on also above idle. It may be related but it doesn't seem to be the primary issue at the moment.

I took apart the clutch again and made some photo's. Hopefully you can see it, below. Might not work, since i'm having a little trouble getting a direct link to the image via google...

Image

The parts all looked good, except that the springs were approximately 39.xmm long, where the manual states that they should be 35.x! If you see the image, you might notice that the plate with the bearing looks different too. This is because it is from an 1100. I actually put that in myself a few years ago, probably along with the springs, because I had broken the plate by not evening the bolts in small increments in a criss-cross pattern, and I could only find a second hand clutch from a gl1100... so, it is a bit of a mix and match, but it worked well for years. Could it be the issue? Regardless, I now do have a new gl1000 plate and springs which I will put in, just to be sure.

Because I'm not sure this was the source of the noise, I dug a bit deeper. The alternator bolt was where it should be, and the kickstarter also works as it should. Since that was in order, I decided to start getting the engine out. Got halfway done, will finish next week, and will see what's behind door number two then...
1976 Gran' Luxe 1000. Once red, now orange, soon yellow...
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Barrie
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Re: Grinding/scratching noise clutch

#10

Post by Barrie »

I got the motor out and took the rear case off. There was nothing out of the ordinary to see there. No ground up material, no scratches, boloose screws. I took the clutch off and inspected the oil pump externally and by turning the pump. No cracks in the material and no weird noises other than the expected shump-shump.

I also inspected the oil screen. There were no metal particles to be found there either... Would it have been the 1100 clutch parts?
1976 Gran' Luxe 1000. Once red, now orange, soon yellow...
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Re: Grinding/scratching noise clutch

#11

Post by cfairweather »

While you have the cover off, check the starter clutch parts and the shaft bearing. Lubricate both. I really thought you would find the noise coming from the clutch and I guess it still could be clutch related even though it was not destroyed. Make sure your water pump turns freely. If you have an inspection camera, you might stick it in all the small openings and get a good look inside the engine case to see if you can spot a problem. Carefully inspect the bearing that goes into the lifter plate as it may have been making the noise. You said you had a different one, so that may solve it. Good luck.
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Re: Grinding/scratching noise clutch

#12

Post by desertrefugee »

Lol. Well, I never said working on the clutch was going to be easy, whether it's in the frame or out. Not everybody is this willing as you are, to just pop the motor out! What is frustrating is to do that and yet not find the smoking gun. I always dread that and would be reluctant to put it back in until a thorough assessment has been done. Folks here are alluding to potential issues not clutch related.
'97 Valkyrie, '86 VMax, '83 ZG1300-6, ‘82 CX500 Turbo, ‘79 CBX, ‘78 GL1000, '78 750F Project

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Barrie
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Re: Grinding/scratching noise clutch

#13

Post by Barrie »

desertrefugee wrote: Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:55 pm Lol. Well, I never said working on the clutch was going to be easy, whether it's in the frame or out. Not everybody is this willing as you are, to just pop the motor out! What is frustrating is to do that and yet not find the smoking gun. I always dread that and would be reluctant to put it back in until a thorough assessment has been done. Folks here are alluding to potential issues not clutch related.
Frustrating indeed, getting the motor out is quite a job, so I had hoped it would reveal the issue... At least it allowed me to put the clutch in place without much awkward fiddling. I appreciate the non-clutch suggestions, and will definitely go over them before i put the motor back.
1976 Gran' Luxe 1000. Once red, now orange, soon yellow...
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