Hey guys a customer has a 1986 GL1200I that when left after a day it will not start well. When cranking it will not spark after a bit it starts to spark and back fires almost hydro lock. Then it over comes this and fires up but surges from idle to 2000 RPM until it finally runs and pretty good. Will restart for the rest of that day until it sits overnight and starts the cycle over. I am thinking the ignition module is bad but would like some input due to the fact it is no longer available form Honda. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

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May The Fours Be With You.

CB77 1965 First Bike
CB750K0 1970 SOLD!
GL1000 1975 "Puffy"
CB750F2 1978 Sacrificed for Retro Custom
CB250 Nighthawk 2004 My Wife Lee's ride
CB77 1964 "Ruby" Custom Cafe Racer

Ross' Retro Ride Info

so are what you saying is that there is no spark (on all four? two? or one?)

but if you get it running there is spark?

the crappy running then sounds like too much gas/flooded

what would interest me is to turn off the gas.... pull the plugs, and make sure they are dry, and then turn it over before ANY gas has gone in and ground the plugs to see if they really are/are not sparking

this is going to be a matter of elimination

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-Rodger-
The question is not how much time do you have, it is what you do with the time that you have Gandalf
"One of the greatest dignities of humankind is that each successive generation is invested in the welfare of each new generation." Fred Rodgers
78 wing we have had since.... well.... 78, been in nearly every state, 76 Ltd "cookies bike" up and running, still needs some work, 79 project, back in pieces while I move, '86 1200 (Beth's) with motrvation sidecar, 05 HD Road king and 08 HD Heritage softail (Beth's). I guess you can say we have MBS
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=27685
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=35846

Well that is the strange part with the timing light hook up there is no spark all 4. After some cranking it starts to spark, some more cranking it hydros (slightly) and more cranking starts like flooded with high and low reving. Plugs have been checked and are dry. Eventually catches up and runs fine for the rest of the day. Cycle starts again after it sets overnight. Stumped unless the ignition module is to blame. Wondered if anyone else has had this experience.

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RetroRideInfo.com
May The Fours Be With You.

CB77 1965 First Bike
CB750K0 1970 SOLD!
GL1000 1975 "Puffy"
CB750F2 1978 Sacrificed for Retro Custom
CB250 Nighthawk 2004 My Wife Lee's ride
CB77 1964 "Ruby" Custom Cafe Racer

Ross' Retro Ride Info

still a bit confused (that is easy for me). When you mention timing light hook up. to check the spark I would simply pull the plug and visually see if it sparks.

there are two components to the 1200 ignition. the cdi box (only way to check is to replace) and the pulsars, which on an 86 are on the center area of the timing belts.

but I would think they simply would quit. although I know when I had my cx500 it just ran funky at speed

the other thing I would wonder about is the coils.

On my 1200 when the pulsar went it just went.... no toying with me

_________________
-Rodger-
The question is not how much time do you have, it is what you do with the time that you have Gandalf
"One of the greatest dignities of humankind is that each successive generation is invested in the welfare of each new generation." Fred Rodgers
78 wing we have had since.... well.... 78, been in nearly every state, 76 Ltd "cookies bike" up and running, still needs some work, 79 project, back in pieces while I move, '86 1200 (Beth's) with motrvation sidecar, 05 HD Road king and 08 HD Heritage softail (Beth's). I guess you can say we have MBS
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=27685
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=35846

If the plugs were fouled would there be enough voltage buildup to trigger the light? Could it be there's too much gas for awhile,then it clears out enough to start the fire and then run crappy 'til it dries out? Generally electronics don't heal themselves like that. They can be intermittent but "predictably" intermittent?
Couple tests,shut the gas off and run it 'til it quits,then next morning turn the gas on just when you're ready to start it,also what Rodger said. Verify that the petcock is actually turning off the gas?

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I suggest you check the oil for gas mixed in there. It sure sounds like the floats are leaking fuel into one or more cylinder. Wet plugs won't discharge a timing light as they represent a dead short to ground. Starts and runs fine the rest of the day. Ok so it isn't leaking that bad but it's leaking.

The only way to prove or disprove it is to let it sit overnight. Before attempting a start remove the plugs and check for wet with gas. If not plug them into the plug wires and leave them touching the heads. Then crank it.. I'm betting a fireworks display will result as each of the cylinders pushes the raw gas out through the plug holes and is ignited by the spark plugs.

Another hint was that you said it cranks then hydros slightly. If it were hydro locked you'd notice it on the first 2 revolutions at most. What you are probably hearing is a flooded cylinder dieseling and fighting the starter.

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The person with the most toys wins!
If it has wheels or a skirt you can't afford it.
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2001 GL1800
1984 GL1200 STD
2000 HD Dyna Super Glide Sport FXDX
1972 CB350 K4
Previous bikes:1985 GL1200A, 1997 1200 Sportster, 84 GL1200I, 82 Honda CM400E, 81 Suzuki GS650L, 72 Triumph Bonneville 750, 72 Honda CB350, 66(?) Honda 305 Scrambler, 6? Yamaha yz250, 62 750 Matchless (Norton-Villers).
John

My other 2 Goldwings.... Yeah it's MBS..

Good input guys. The plugs were taken out to check for spark at first to verify and see if wet before post. The tank,petcock and pump were bypassed with a satilite tank. All the same with no wet plugs still.

_________________
RetroRideInfo.com
May The Fours Be With You.

CB77 1965 First Bike
CB750K0 1970 SOLD!
GL1000 1975 "Puffy"
CB750F2 1978 Sacrificed for Retro Custom
CB250 Nighthawk 2004 My Wife Lee's ride
CB77 1964 "Ruby" Custom Cafe Racer

Ross' Retro Ride Info

so, there is no visual spark on the plugs at first.

I would firt clean up all connections. the connectors at the pulsar junction box on the left side of the faux tank, the CDI junction (basically the same place), and the connectors at the coils. Maybe you have a dirty/poor connection.

then, unfortunately, with the CDI box the only way to check is to put in a known working unit. There may be a way to check the pulsars, but I do not know, maybe John does.

_________________
-Rodger-
The question is not how much time do you have, it is what you do with the time that you have Gandalf
"One of the greatest dignities of humankind is that each successive generation is invested in the welfare of each new generation." Fred Rodgers
78 wing we have had since.... well.... 78, been in nearly every state, 76 Ltd "cookies bike" up and running, still needs some work, 79 project, back in pieces while I move, '86 1200 (Beth's) with motrvation sidecar, 05 HD Road king and 08 HD Heritage softail (Beth's). I guess you can say we have MBS
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=27685
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=35846

The pulse generators are checked with an ohmeter. Depending on the year and I'm doing this from memory:
84 1100 +- 100 ohms
85 up 330 +- 10 ohms

_________________
The person with the most toys wins!
If it has wheels or a skirt you can't afford it.
Amateur Radio Station WW9L

2001 GL1800
1984 GL1200 STD
2000 HD Dyna Super Glide Sport FXDX
1972 CB350 K4
Previous bikes:1985 GL1200A, 1997 1200 Sportster, 84 GL1200I, 82 Honda CM400E, 81 Suzuki GS650L, 72 Triumph Bonneville 750, 72 Honda CB350, 66(?) Honda 305 Scrambler, 6? Yamaha yz250, 62 750 Matchless (Norton-Villers).
John

My other 2 Goldwings.... Yeah it's MBS..

Yep, I am thinking pulsers. Easy check with a multi
meter.

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---- Bradshaw Bikes offers polishing and upholstering for your Wing!

thanks.... I knew in the back of my head John knew that info

_________________
-Rodger-
The question is not how much time do you have, it is what you do with the time that you have Gandalf
"One of the greatest dignities of humankind is that each successive generation is invested in the welfare of each new generation." Fred Rodgers
78 wing we have had since.... well.... 78, been in nearly every state, 76 Ltd "cookies bike" up and running, still needs some work, 79 project, back in pieces while I move, '86 1200 (Beth's) with motrvation sidecar, 05 HD Road king and 08 HD Heritage softail (Beth's). I guess you can say we have MBS
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=27685
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=35846

Ok check and let you know. Thanks

_________________
RetroRideInfo.com
May The Fours Be With You.

CB77 1965 First Bike
CB750K0 1970 SOLD!
GL1000 1975 "Puffy"
CB750F2 1978 Sacrificed for Retro Custom
CB250 Nighthawk 2004 My Wife Lee's ride
CB77 1964 "Ruby" Custom Cafe Racer

Ross' Retro Ride Info

Also, establish the initial cranking voltage on the first over-night start. Low voltage will cause lots of problems when vying for juice with the starter.

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81 Interstate: gone but never forgotten.
13 F6B
NGW Cartel

I have to add that I've never even heard of pulse generators failing in the manner described. The usual symptom is it starts and runs fine until the engine warms up then it drops 2 cylinders or completely stops running. Or no spark anytime. Pulse gens that have to warm up first then start working? I guess anything is possible.

Since both pulse generators and an ECU are expensive I think I'd see what happens with a known good battery. I have heard of batteries that actually put out more current after they warm up for a few seconds but that is usually in the dead of winter with cold temps.

I hope you find the problem soon. This is so rare and so interesting that I can't wait to hear the fix.

_________________
The person with the most toys wins!
If it has wheels or a skirt you can't afford it.
Amateur Radio Station WW9L

2001 GL1800
1984 GL1200 STD
2000 HD Dyna Super Glide Sport FXDX
1972 CB350 K4
Previous bikes:1985 GL1200A, 1997 1200 Sportster, 84 GL1200I, 82 Honda CM400E, 81 Suzuki GS650L, 72 Triumph Bonneville 750, 72 Honda CB350, 66(?) Honda 305 Scrambler, 6? Yamaha yz250, 62 750 Matchless (Norton-Villers).
John

My other 2 Goldwings.... Yeah it's MBS..

yes I am waiting as well. As I mentioned earlier the system on a cx500 does really funky things when it goes, but it was a very different electronic ignition system. Also, as I said, when my pulsar went, it just went. The reason I mentioned cleaning all the connections is poor contacts can do really funky things with electricals like you are describing, with intermitten working, then the connection warms up and expands and makes more (or less) contact.... never a bad idea to clean any and all connections on these 30+ year old bikes

_________________
-Rodger-
The question is not how much time do you have, it is what you do with the time that you have Gandalf
"One of the greatest dignities of humankind is that each successive generation is invested in the welfare of each new generation." Fred Rodgers
78 wing we have had since.... well.... 78, been in nearly every state, 76 Ltd "cookies bike" up and running, still needs some work, 79 project, back in pieces while I move, '86 1200 (Beth's) with motrvation sidecar, 05 HD Road king and 08 HD Heritage softail (Beth's). I guess you can say we have MBS
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=27685
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=35846