I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. Sorry

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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#76

Post by CYBORG »

I do know that that temp of the runners are an indicator of weather a cyl is firing or not. And the exact temp tells how well its firing. When its compared to the other cyl. And to the mixture. So pre heating the fuel is not a long stretch.
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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#77

Post by Captain Midnight »

CYBORG wrote:I do know that that temp of the runners are an indicator of weather a cyl is firing or not. And the exact temp tells how well its firing. When its compared to the other cyl. And to the mixture. So pre heating the fuel is not a long stretch.
True.
I fully heat my manifold and the temperature differences can be "seen" and adjusted in various ways. I keep a data logger w/display attached to my #1 cylinder runner still. I no longer need it and have been lazy in removing it.

My direct experience in "runner" temperature observation and control comes from working in the plastics industry for a while.
Image

I easily adopted the same method of "blanketing" the manifold/runner/nozzle configuration pictured from one of my production lines at the time to my manifolds runners.
Image

It's a very effective means of applying heat to the runner generated from the cylinder head in my application. The external condensation mentioned earlier is even visible through the insulator below. Once heated, the cyclic processes of heating make the problem of condensing fuel disappear. The factory elbows provide the same function in application.
Image

That radius downturn is a beast of burden on a single carburetor conversion at times when the atmospheric conditions allow for it, as mentioned. A dual carburetor conversion avoid this problem neatly.
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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#78

Post by CYBORG »

interesting
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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#79

Post by Oldewing »

but don't we want more air in? Hot expands cold contracts..........
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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#80

Post by Captain Midnight »

Oldewing wrote:but don't we want more air in? Hot expands cold contracts..........
Yes to both.
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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#81

Post by rcmatt007 »

so I occasionally watch the "debates".... Wow! lots of hot air


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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#82

Post by CYBORG »

I do agree that cooler air is better. But cooler relevant to engine temp
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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#83

Post by 82aspy »

Captain Midnight wrote:
82aspy wrote:the application of heat, is only a non stock carb issue
Aren't the factory elbow's heated for a reason?
perhaps you would consider starting a new thread being very clear about your main point,

mods had already chimed in on this one prior to it starting up again
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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#84

Post by Captain Midnight »

82aspy wrote:
Captain Midnight wrote:
82aspy wrote:the application of heat, is only a non stock carb issue
Aren't the factory elbow's heated for a reason?
perhaps you would consider starting a new thread being very clear about your main point,

mods had already chimed in on this one prior to it starting up again
I see no reason for another thread. The factory elbows are heated by Honda. It's a given, correct?
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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#85

Post by 82aspy »

Captain Midnight wrote:I see no reason for another thread.
you wanna go there, be my guest, i ain't going there and am done with this thread
"there is a Darwinian element"
Yoda said, "There is no try or not try; there is only do or don't do."
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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#86

Post by Captain Midnight »

CYBORG wrote:I do agree that cooler air is better. But cooler relevant to engine temp
A balancing act.
Colder air allows more fuel by volume.
Hotter fuel allows a faster, more efficient burn.
I don't think ...that my manifold significantly raises the charge temperature. Impossible for me to get my sensors in the middle of the tract to know though. I've extrapolated numbers, but that's logical guesswork at best.
If I leave the runner insulators on during the summer while using the coolant chamber to heat the plenum, I have hot-start problems. Too much heat. Consequently, the fuel was vaporizing during starting, causing such a lean condition as to starve the engine. Many incorrectly call this vapor-lock, which it is not. Last year, I left the insulators off while using the coolant chamber and the hot-start issue disappeared. Allowing the heat to radiate off of the exposed runners, and the fuel charge to slightly absorb some of the heat is how it works today.
I use the insulators during the winter. It gets cold here, of which I am right tired of.
I believe I've found good balance with mine.
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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#87

Post by Captain Midnight »

82aspy wrote:
Captain Midnight wrote:I see no reason for another thread.
you wanna go there, be my guest, i ain't going there and am done with this thread
I don't know what you're talking about Aspy.
Relax.
Captain Midnight

Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#88

Post by Captain Midnight »

Here's a shot of those temp sensors tied to the Hayden on runner #1.
I had a bunch of those sensors on a 8-pole, dual throw rotary switch at one time, because the Hayden temp reader only works with two at a time. I was reading all kinds of stuff.
I started off by writing all of that stuff down by hand everywhere I went.
"Hold On! I'm taking my reading's!"
I eventually tied a logger to it.

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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#89

Post by robin1731 »

Technically the intakes are not "heated" from the factory. They will get residual heat from the heads. Heated, to me, means something that is attached to the intakes to bring them up in temp even more. Such as wrapping them with a coil of copper tubing fed from the cooling system. Just the same way you would heat a carburetor.
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Re: I know, I know, this has probably talked about before. S

#90

Post by robin1731 »

Captain Midnight wrote:snip..................
Hotter fuel allows a faster, more efficient burn.

If this were the case race cars would heat the fuel before it enters the carb instead of cooling it. The cooler you can make the fuel and air the more dense the mix becomes. Which in turn makes more power.

Heating the fuel can cause the mix to become too lean. Creating other issues.
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1985 Honda Elite
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and a rotation of various purchases
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