My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

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bigburlybug
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#76

Post by bigburlybug »

octane wrote:snip[ ...do not use the spanner to turn the pulley. Use your hands
...then 'lock' it with the spanner.(make absolutely sure you did not turn (release) the bolt)]
Easter wrote:If I followed along, I think Octane was just saying it isn't necessary under normal situations to loosen or remove the cam wheels or bolts. As far as tension goes, my experience is that it is normal for some variation in tension which goes away under power. At least it hasn't been an issue on the five or six I have done. Glad to see you weren't fooled by that extra mark on the right wheel!
Thanks Easter. It's the underline that makes me wonder :?: . I'll consider the timing belts good then and stick the engine in the bike! (I was about to use that other line but gratefully caught it in time. Thank you permanent marker lol)
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#77

Post by toolbox »

Looking good :). As a side note, if you do the belts before adjusting the valves, you can back off the adjusters that make the 1/3 cam want to move out of place...I think it was the #3 cylinder that's under tension (the exhaust valve if I remember correctly...but don't quote me on that). Makes it easier to get that side lined up anyway.
Looks like you're well on your way!
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#78

Post by bigburlybug »

toolbox wrote:Looking good :). As a side note, if you do the belts before adjusting the valves, you can back off the adjusters that make the 1/3 cam want to move out of place...I think it was the #3 cylinder that's under tension (the exhaust valve if I remember correctly...but don't quote me on that). Makes it easier to get that side lined up anyway.
Looks like you're well on your way!

I'll remember that in 5,000 miles. or when I have to take the timing belts off to fix an issue lol. I'm bumping and rolling along alright.

Remember that chopped off starter bolt?
Image

Now it has a broken, super hard extractor in the hole fly into a rage . I've welded twice in my life and both times were just for kicks for about two minutes on huge thick steel that didn't matter. Needless to say, I was really hoping the extractor would work.
After that failed, I borrowed a welder from a guy who is leaving town for the weekend. I tried taping a nut to the block so I could weld it. That failed due to bad tape aaaand inexperience. :redbox:
I tried holding the nut with pliers and got a good weld :) sadly it was to the pliers and not the stuck bolt :( A very small chunk of aluminum is also gone from the weld area (the picture shows it, just hard to see). I have decided welding this job is beyond my ken. Now that the hardened extractor steel is in there, re-tapping won't be fun either. So I'll wait for the guy to come back on Sunday and weld it for me, he's a pretty good welder. The starter is the only thing holding me back from hooking the engine back up and turning it over, so that bolt and the PO aren't my friend right now.

Since I still had time left after grinding the weld off of the pliers :oops: , I decided to take the rear brake off. It didn't work when the bike rolled off the trailer so something is up.
Image
I drove out the brake pad pins :smash , removed the pads, and tried to pry out the pistons with not very compressed air (fitting isn't the right size) and unsurprisingly they didn't come out. It was going to get a rebuild before and there's gunk everywhere so its going to get a rebuild. at some point.. later... in the future.... when I have the engine working ....
Last edited by bigburlybug on Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#79

Post by toolbox »

Hmmm...you might be able to get a nut to work, but I've always used a bolt... I made a visual to explain :).
Pretend for a second that the nut you see here is your engine block, and the bolt threaded into it is the broken off one.

Image

All you have to do is find another bolt slightly smaller in diameter...you want to use a smaller one so you have some room on the side to put the weld. Then, just weld the tip of the new bolt to the stub.

Image

It will look something like this when it's done...

Image

Then, just put a ratchet on the new bolt and turn it out :). Pretty much any MIG or wire feel welder should work, though yea...I probably wouldn't recommend using this as a way to learn how to do it :). Would be a good idea to cover as much of that area as you can to keep it from getting damaged by spatter too. It's too bad you're not in my neck of the woods, I could probably have it out in a few minutes...

And I definitely feel your pain on the screw extractor... The last time I used an easy out was summer of 1995. I was rebuilding the 394 for my Olds, and I snapped off an oil pump bolt. I didn't want to pay a machine shop to remove it, so I bought an extractor. Drilled a hole in it, and yea...*snap*. I still didn't want to pay a machine shop to remove it, but I did. When I called and asked them how much it would be they gave me a price (I forget what it was, but it wasn't too bad). Then I asked "What if there's *cough* and easy-out broken off in it *cough*"
"Oh...yea, maybe you should have called us first, that's going to be...more." :lol: They were able to get the whole thing out, but it wasn't cheap.
I've heard stories of people who have used them successfully, but I'm not one of them. I'll never use one again as far as I'm concerned. YMMV, of course :mrgreen: . Anyway, hope it comes out ok. Welding gets things very hot, very quickly, but in a very localized way...it's great for getting them to give up and come out.

And my brake calipers were pretty bad too. Be careful if you use compressed air to pop the pistons out...wear hearing protection, and have a pile of old rags over them as when they do let go, they come out with a lot of force (and sound :shock: ). I just close the bleeder, and then put a blow gun in the hole where the banjo fitting goes...hold on tight, and squirt shots of air into it. Once one comes out, you have to put it back in just slightly, and then brace it with an old brake pad or screwdriver or something so it holds pressure to force the other one out. You can also use a grease gun to pump them out...it's more work since you have to clean up the grease after, but lacks the danger and excitement of using an air compressor.
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#80

Post by Easter »

I have now done a slew (that is an official count) of these old brake calipers. Grease is the way to go. It is messy but works without drama. As Tool Box points out, if you have multiple pistons you need to make sure all of them are free before you let one pop out or you will lose all the pressure.

I just use a small gun type grease gun (redundant I realize). A full sized grease gun would work even faster. Remove the outer collar on the tip.The threads are similar but not identical to the bleed hole, but will screw in several turns without damage. The hydraulic line hole will need to be plugged with a bolt of the correct size.
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#81

Post by bigburlybug »

Easter wrote:I have now done a slew (that is an official count) of these old brake calipers. Grease is the way to go. It is messy but works without drama. As Tool Box points out, if you have multiple pistons you need to make sure all of them are free before you let one pop out or you will lose all the pressure.

I just use a small gun type grease gun (redundant I realize). A full sized grease gun would work even faster. Remove the outer collar on the tip.The threads are similar but not identical to the bleed hole, but will screw in several turns without damage. The hydraulic line hole will need to be plugged with a bolt of the correct size.
Thanks for the longer explanation Easter, I have a feeling its going to take a bit (i.e. a lot) of pressure to get them out. Since you've done a slew (to the thousandth significant digit) and recommend the method, I'll head in that direction after I get the other three carbs cleaned up.
Toolbox wrote: How to properly weld to a stuck bolt shaft and more with pictures.
Thanks for the pictorial Toolbox! I was thinking of a nut since there would be more surface area = more strength for the weld to hold on to the shaft and the nut. Then I could really crank on it even if 3/4 of the weld was bad. I might try again (just once, maybe twice) with the bolt and hopefully redeem my pride.

Can't thank you guys enough for all the help and tips. shakehands
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#82

Post by toolbox »

You might want to hit the hardware store and get a handful of bolts to practice on...then when you get the hang of it try it on the real thing. The weld doesnt have to be big to be strong...it just has to get decent penetration of both pieces of metal. What you don't want is a big booger weld that sits on top of the metal with only slight penetration (though in this case it might be good enough). I think its probably pretty common for people just starting out to make their welds too cold...you really want the molton pool of metal to fuse both pieces, and not just spray metal on it like paint :lol: .
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#83

Post by bigburlybug »

I've been a bit busy enjoying the summer and haven't been working on the bike as much. Too much swimming and playing to do. Riding would be a lovely option to have :crosso but not there yet.

I learned a bit about my self the last time I worked on it though.
I'm not a natural born welder.
Image
Which is fine by me, another hobby / skill to keep me busy after this bike is done :)
I practiced for a whole five minutes and decided to get on with it.
Image
And unsurprisingly, this was about the best I was able to do after about the fifth last try. Yes, that
Toolbox wrote: is a big booger weld that sits on top of the metal with only slight penetration
It did pull off some of the extractor and part of the bolt! But the weld didn't fuse enough with the bolt to extract it. So I'm going to be drilling and tapping it.

Also been Sloooooowwwly working on carbs (lack of will, not skill). Here's the start
Image
Which isn't as bad as most I've seen on here.
Image
Yamaha carb cleaner is doing pretty well. dancr

I have one carb put together, the second is more or less clean and the other two are still attached to the plenum uncleaned just in case the first two didn't work out. Everything on the two clean one seems to slide pretty well ( if not heavenly smooth) so I think it should work out as long as I don't forget any tiny washers lol. Thank you to the people that suggested aluminum foil for cleaning shakehands . My toothbrush was not working out.

Went back to my parents house for the fourth and picked up an old xbox 360 power cord. It should work rather well for the tank de-rusting process which will start tomorrow. More on that Wednesday.
Last edited by bigburlybug on Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#84

Post by Easter »

I added two more stuck calipers to my resume this weekend and as I was hooking up the grease gun I realized I told you to connect to the bleeder hole and put a bolt in the hole for the brake line. This is wrong for grease, but maybe correct for air. Attach the grease gun hose or fitting to the brake line hole and leave the bleeder tight in its hole. And it is messy!

I am no welder either but it is a skill I envy and plan to practice when (if) I ever get to retire.
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And a slightly worse for the wear BMW GS adventure bike awaiting repair
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#85

Post by robin1731 »

Easter wrote:I added two more stuck calipers to my resume this weekend and as I was hooking up the grease gun I realized I told you to connect to the bleeder hole and put a bolt in the hole for the brake line. This is wrong for grease, but maybe correct for air. Attach the grease gun hose or fitting to the brake line hole and leave the bleeder tight in its hole. And it is messy!

I am no welder either but it is a skill I envy and plan to practice when (if) I ever get to retire.
You were right the first time. I always put the grease gun on the bleed screw. Remove the screw first and put Teflon tape on the threads. Then put it in till it bottoms out and back it out just a tad. You will need to plug the brake line hole. Easy to do if it uses a banjo bolt. But even if it is a line like on a front caliper for a 1000 just use an old line, screw the fitting in and pinch off the line. Then pump the grease in the bleed screw.

Would work either way. ;)

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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#86

Post by toolbox »

Bummer the bolt didn't come out...but, don't feel too bad--nobody is born a welder :lol: . And I'll be the first person to admit the limits of my own skills...one of my best friends from high school is a certified boilermaker who spends his days welding big tanks and things at oil refineries. He went to school for several years to learn his trade, and he's been doing it for more than a decade. Now, he's a welder...I'm just a guy with a welder :lol: . I learned the basics by reading a couple books, watching videos, and OTJ... I'm no expert, but I know enough for what I do I suppose. Youtube has a bazillion videos on it, so if you want to learn that might be a cheap way to do it. That was probably going to be a tough one anyway...if you're trying to weld onto the back of the extractor, it's probably hard to get a good weld on something with that much carbon in it. Definitely let us know how the drill goes... And the carbs look like they should clean up great. You're definitely making progress :) .
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#87

Post by bigburlybug »

Well I'll have more practice to weld, the tank has a leak. dancr

I went to Walmart and bought some Arm n Hammer washing soda to start the tank de-rusting process. It supplies 12 volts and 16 amps, I say that should do the trick.
Image
I'm using an old piece of muffler hanger with some cloth around it to prevent the shorts. It worked out pretty well
Image
until I remembered that the sending unit isn't the top of the gas tank lolol How do you guys plug the sending unit hole without putting the sending unit in? Cause I used playdough!
Image
It took a few failed attempts to plug that hole until the playdough idea came around. Once it was all full, I saw the bottom of the tank dripping near a rust spot. I figured it was my bad pouring technique. 30 minutes later and the dripping was going at the same rate, pretty sure its a leak. censored2
So next step will be to tank out the tank YAY. It'll make it easier to get out my failed golf ball plug out at least :)

Work happened on the screw and I think I got most of the extractor out. Just need to drill a bit deeper and then tap it. Getting closer to turning the engine over!
Last edited by bigburlybug on Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#88

Post by ericheath »

I used a piece of plastic from a storage bin cut to the diameter of the hole, then used the same cam ring that is used to hold the sending unit in place. Worked well and allowed easy removal to check progress. I also used citric acid crystals dissolved in distilled water.
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#89

Post by bigburlybug »

Well its been relatively hot here in Indiana so I've been taking a break and swimming instead of working on the bike. Haven't really felt like dealing with the little, or more accurately - un-expected, problems I've been having either.

So you saw the previous pictures of the gas tank de-rusting process. The fuel sending unit had some harder to remove rust and figured I'd solve the leaking issue and rusty unit at the same time so electrolyized it.
Image
Its still not perfect, but it moves smoothly. I haven't checked for resistance values yet though, maybe Tuesday when I can utilize a meter from work.

What was unexpected was the fact that the gas tank did not show similar results. I've been pumping the tank with juice for three nights in a row (total of approximately 30 hours) and the bottom still isn't close to looking half way decent. I'm thinking its because I had the anode close up to where the tank fill is. So I'm dropping the anode near the bottom and am hoping to see some results.

The chopped off starter bolt is finally gone! It took a lot of drilling :dragbike and a carbide bit to finally get the whole thing tapped. The mechanic whose house the bike is at kindly got the bit and drilled it out to depth while I was out of town. He said the bit was going to be too big so a larger diameter bolt would be required after it was tapped. Didn't seem like a big deal to me since we could make the starter hole bigger as well.
Image
So I came back to town and wanted to see if he drilled the hole deep enough so started threading in that bolt. At some point, I felt a bit of resistance (grime or metal shards maybe?) so gave it a bit more force to make sure it wasn't the end. Turns out it wasn't grime.
Image
So the middle bolt is the original starter bolt. The starter is about 1/4" thick so the depth of the hole should be the original bolt - 1/4".
The bottom bolt screws all the way in :shock: and could probably go further.
I think the mechanic drilled the depth of the original bolt (not taking into account the starter spacing) and a little more which made the hole get close to the end of inside of the outer block wall. Then I tore down the thin wall remaining when threading the too long bolt in. crying1 So I was a bit dejected after that fiasco and figured I go enjoy myself swimming :-D for two weeks. it was a good time.

What I plan on doing to fix this issue is getting a larger diameter bolt the length of the original starter bolt, smearing the last three quarters near the head with JB weld, and then screwing that in the hole and letting it dry. Then chop off its head, drill and tap it to the original bolt size -1/4" and putting the starter on that. That way the starter stays original and the hole is plugged. Seem like a reasonable plan?

My other question is what is behind that area? Is it the crank shaft housing or a cooling jacket? I'm sure there's some chunks of metal in that void after punching through the wall so I'm wondering how I can try to flush it out. Some ideas here will sure be appreciated.
Last edited by bigburlybug on Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#90

Post by Sagebrush »

You might be able to get away with just wrapping your bolt with Teflon plumbers tape. You might be able to flush any debris by spraying the area liberally with WD-40 then remove the inspection plate and oil screen on the other side of the engine and clean out the bottom of the block through that access.
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