My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

A forum for stories, pics and updates of your resto's. Be it a barn find, Grampas hand me down or a bike being brought back to it's former glory.If you are restoring it, show us your stuff!

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bigburlybug
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#106

Post by bigburlybug »

I've searched various permutations of washer / spacer / dowel / carburetor pins and I think I found out where those spacer / washer goes from an ebay guy selling "83 HONDA GOLDWING GL1100 CARB INTAKE MANIFOLD CHAMBER CASE HALF DOWEL GUIDE PINS". I know all of the pins are on the individual carbs but I'm thinking I left them off of the plenum halves. :cry: Hopefully they aren't too big of a deal because I was feeling a bit anxious and started the process of putting the carbs on the bike. The jets weren't as clean as I thought so I gave them some love, set the bowl heights, and proceeded to install them on the bike. Then I un-installed the carbs to put the coolant pipes back in place. :-D Once that was in order I installed the carbs again.
Image
Carbs installed, weird flame patterns on covers visible

which was a mistake.

Roady's Carburetor Overhaul, Gl 100 http://ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12168 was a massive help on rebuilding the carbs (Thanks a ton, I would have had no hope without this guide. Thanks to Randakk as well for his book and comprehensive kit). However, I didn't print out the last page which says
Roady wrote: Use a syringe to fill the carbs with gas through the fuel inlet fitting. Test it by rotating the throttle and watching for gas spritzing into the carbs. Check that all of the choke and throttle linkage works smoothly.
Instead I installed new ngk spark plugs
Image
and tried to fire it up.


I wasn't too surprised when it didn't fire up. (On the plus side, starter button works! dancr ) I didn't hear any kind of bangs even after pouring some gas down the spark plugs holes. I checked to make a sure a spark was available, and sure enough, they were dead. Since I only hooked up the battery terminal, I figured there were some other wires that weren't connected but should be. There were three wires coming out of the engine so I plugged them in and tried again. Mini bolts of lightening are now mine to command!! party2 . There was spark. I tried the bike out again, and again no bangs. crying1

I dumped some fuel down the air inlet portion of the carbs for the fun of it and BANG! biggrin It startled me so much that I let go of the starter button and the bike immediately died. I tried it again, heard some more pops, but not a really good succession of explosions.

I should say that my fuel tank is 5 gallon gas tank sitting on top of the bike where the seat goes with a fuel line going from the tank, through the fuel filter, and to the fuel pump. My first thought was that the fuel pump might not have enough power to pull the 93 octane gas through the system so I sucked the other end of the hose (MMMMMmmmm, tasty gas :drunk ), poured some in the carb to make sure there was flow, and attached the end to the fuel filter. It made some promising sounds until the gas in the air intake ran out. I popped the makeshift hose off the fuel filter and it was dry. I'm wishing I tried Roady's "fill the bowl, make sure it spritzes the carbs" test to rule out the carb section since it is the last thing I want to fix. It could be various other things I guess and I'll happily hear suggestions.

Sadly I'm flying on business until after the new year so won't have time to work on it.
Image
Its getting closer though. Once I hear it running, I'll start throwing money at it and fixing everything else. May that day come soon.
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#107

Post by bigburlybug »

I'm back! and started working on the bike again. After thinking on the problem for three months, I came up with three things I wanted to try. #1 was bypass the fuel filter in case it was clogged from 25 years of disuse. #2 Pull off the fuel outlet line from the fuel pump and see if the pump is working. #3 fill up the carb bowls with gas and make sure they are working properly. All pretty simple.

So I started in on #1 by using a length of hose to connect to the fuel pump and pouring gas into the air intake to give the bike a little boost. I connected the bike to my car battery and went for it. First try and there was one or two bangs. Second try a series of burps. Third try it almost sounded like it could theoretically run. Fourth try and it I got excited because it still ran for a half second after I let go of the starter button. Gas in the air intake was dry so I put a little more in for good luck. Ran it for the fifth time and VRRRRROOOOOOM!!!! until the gas in the air intake was gone. I was super happy that the bike was making noise on its own and the engine didn't explode party2 After making it roar by fueling in the air intake for half an hour, I went back to figuring out why it couldn't run continously.

Hypothesis #1 could still be a problem but I bypassed it so there was something else wrong and so moved on to #2,
the fuel pump. I took the fuel pump outlet hose off, more gas in the intake, and fired it up. The ensueing oily rag fire :flamer caused by flames shooting out of the header distracted me and so had to try again. On try two, the bike was sounding great but there is no fuel coming from the pump :( So the fuel pump is bad. After all of the excitement of hearing the bike run, I decided to end the days work there on a relatively good note.

I'm excited to get this bike running so more to come.
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#108

Post by bigburlybug »

Today was beautiful in Indiana, I saw a couple of bikers out on the road :crosso
I was inside working on the fuel pump though :smash. Last thursday, I poured some gas down a hose connected to the gas intake hoping it would dissolve whatever was blocking the fuel pump. No luck and not surprising. So I proceeded to take the fuel pump apart. Here's a picture so my future self will put it together right.
Image
Fuel Pump Components. The top does come off without much work and the screw does hold that cap on tight.

I had to wiggle off the top cap. The whole time I was thinking, "It's not coming out easy because of all the gunk in there". And I was right.
Image
Gunk around the base. Probably more in the channel

The diaphragm, considering the damage so far, was amazingly ok so I can avoid the whole process of drilling out bearings (still, fingers crossed). I think the main issue is gas build up in a channel located here.
Image
Fuel Channel that's blocked.
Its hard to see but in the shadow, there is an even darker circle. That darker circle is a channel full of gas that has been sitting for 25 years or more and slowly clogging the lane. It'll get a good blasting here shortly
:blast :blast

Everything else was either clean or coated with varnish that should come off without to much effort.


So more cleaning in carb cleaner over night, blow some air through it, and use aluminum foil to clean it out as well I can. Since the carbs were good with it, I'll assume the fuel pump is ok as well but might as well ask; is there anything in fuel pump not compatible with Yamaha carb cleaner?

I also poured more gas into the air intake since hearing it run makes me happy. Here's a video of it.

No, I didn't notice the large amounts of pooling liquids underneath the header lolol Unless someone tells me otherwise, I'm going to keep ignoring it for a while longer too. :)
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#109

Post by bigburlybug »

I shouldn't have ignored the pooling liquids underneath the header. :flamer Be prepared for a long post.

I'll start with the good news though.

After cleaning the fuel pump up some, I realized that dark spot in the shadow was not a fuel channel port. I was super confused on why a channel would be there so that cleared a lot of things up. Once I got past that misconception, I realized that this puck was not a filter and to move within its housing up and down with the pressure created by the diaphragm.
After carefully poking at it with a knife, The 30 year old gas glue released it.
Image
A little shine and all was right with the pump.
Image

Since I've been putting gas in the air intake and running the bike without it exploding, I assumed everything was more or less good with the engine and carburetors. I attached the fuel pump to the motor without putting on the fuel outlet to the carbs so I could see if the pump was working. Ran it and the pump squirted fuel for about three seconds! I only filled the inlet hose up half way so maybe the pump needs to be primed?

So I sucked on the fuel outlet, plugged it into the carbs and tightened the hose up. I saw some gas on the engine so wiped it up and turned over the motorcycle again.
Once - nothing.

Twice - a little more.

Three times it sounded promising but then WHOOOOOSH!!!!

A flame leapt up and I scrambled moving the gas can tank and using a wet towel to put out the fire (To deprive the fire of oxygen) since there wasn't a fire extinguisher handy.

I thankfully got the fire out without damaging anything in or on the garage. The motorcycle withstood it decently well too I think. That doesn't mean nothing went amiss though.

What I think happened was a leak sprouted under the #3 carburetor once the fuel pump started sending fuel to it. This fuel leaked on top of the motor and then down the sides to where the exhaust headers were spewing flames. Flame went up and subsequently burned three plastic pieces on the #3 carb assembly that I'm betting are going to be nigh impossible to find. I'll have some pictures of the damage tomorrow.

Lessons learned - Check for leaks before running, put on the exhaust pipes, and have a fire extinguisher handy.
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#110

Post by Brant »

That is a lesson learned most of us have had to learn. Glad you got it out before things got worse.
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#111

Post by bigburlybug »

Brant wrote:That is a lesson learned most of us have had to learn. Glad you got it out before things got worse.
Thanks for the ego boost Brant. anim-cheers1

Here's the damage. All of it occured on the #3 carb so the leak probably came from there.

First off, an overall pic of where the damage occured
Image

A close up,
Image
There's supposed to be a white plastic piece on what I'm calling the accelerator pump linkage

The second burnt piece I couldn't get a decent of and I'm not sure there is a sister on the other side.

The third piece
Image

And here is how that last piece is supposed to look
Image

Anybody out there have a part number or even a name for these plastic pieces?

I'm guessing I'm going to have to buy a #3 carb to get the pieces but would prefer not to if possible.

The fun just keeps on coming :) (I really am enjoying working on the bike though)
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#112

Post by sunnbobb »

Man, you have had to wade through a lot to get this machine up. I was reading your part about pouring gas in the carb.. please please tell me you have a fire extinguisher sitting right next to your bike...
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#113

Post by ericheath »

Here's my fire extinguisher:
IMG_1301.JPG
IMG_1301.JPG (179.94 KiB) Viewed 757 times
It worked, twice actually, but now I have extinguishers handy.

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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#114

Post by Brant »

bigburlybug wrote:
Brant wrote:That is a lesson learned most of us have had to learn. Glad you got it out before things got worse.
Thanks for the ego boost Brant. anim-cheers1
My lesson learned was to always have the air filer in place when starting a bike. Someone might have those pieces laying around.
83 GL 1100 bagger Ugly Betty
ALL WE WANT TO DO IS DRINK OUR ESPRESSO, RIDE OUR MACHINES, AND NOT BE HASSLED BY THE MAN
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#115

Post by toolbox »

Glad there was no major damage! Don't feel too bad though, we've all done something boneheaded at some point. When I was in my '20s restoring my Olds, I had a similar experience... I'd just finished rebuilding the 394 in it, and was trying to get it started for the first time...it was sputtering and coughing, but not quite starting. I thought it wasn't getting fuel...so, I took an old 2 liter bottle, dumped in a bunch of gas (what could go wrong?), and had a buddy trickle some down the carb (you can probably guess where this is headed :oops: ). Tried cranking it again and...POW! Backfire through the carb...which of course started a minor fire on top of the engine. My buddy unfortunately didn't get the bottle out of the way, which created a secondary (and in some ways more pressing issue) because it was now turning into sort of a melty plastic version of napalm. Fortunately, I had the reaction time of a 20 year old that was about to see his project, garage, and probably everything else go up in a big fireball of stupidity...I kicked the ball of napalm into the driveway, and put a blanket on the engine, putting an end to the excitement. So, lesson learned...the hard way. Experience is a funny teacher that way...you get the test first and the lesson later :lol: . Good news was the damage was pretty minor. The soda bottle shriveled up into the weird little mass of burnt plastic, which I kept in my toolbox for years as a reminder to think twice before going "it'll be fine!" :). I think it's still sitting around my garage somewhere actually...this spring when I clean, maybe I'll see if I can find it. Oh, and the reason the car wouldn't start--I put the distributor in 180* off :oops: . Yea, there's actually more than one TDC lol. Put it in right and it fired right up...whoops. Anyway, glad to see you're still at it!! You're getting there for sure...
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#116

Post by bigburlybug »

sunnbobb wrote:Man, you have had to wade through a lot to get this machine up. I was reading your part about pouring gas in the carb.. please please tell me you have a fire extinguisher sitting right next to your bike...
Nope. I will next time though lolol
It has been a trip but I'll get it running one day despite hell or high water.
ericheath wrote:Here's my fire extinguisher
That thing must have some serious PSI to be able to put out gas fires! Why did you switch? (JK)
toolbox wrote:Glad there was no major damage! Don't feel too bad though, we've all done something boneheaded at some point. When I was in my '20s restoring my Olds, I had a similar experience... I'd just finished rebuilding the 394 in it, and was trying to get it started for the first time...it was sputtering and coughing, but not quite starting. I thought it wasn't getting fuel...so, I took an old 2 liter bottle, dumped in a bunch of gas (what could go wrong?), and had a buddy trickle some down the carb (you can probably guess where this is headed :oops: ). Tried cranking it again and...POW! Backfire through the carb...which of course started a minor fire on top of the engine. My buddy unfortunately didn't get the bottle out of the way, which created a secondary (and in some ways more pressing issue) because it was now turning into sort of a melty plastic version of napalm. Fortunately, I had the reaction time of a 20 year old that was about to see his project, garage, and probably everything else go up in a big fireball of stupidity...I kicked the ball of napalm into the driveway, and put a blanket on the engine, putting an end to the excitement. So, lesson learned...the hard way. Experience is a funny teacher that way...you get the test first and the lesson later :lol: . Good news was the damage was pretty minor. The soda bottle shriveled up into the weird little mass of burnt plastic, which I kept in my toolbox for years as a reminder to think twice before going "it'll be fine!" :). I think it's still sitting around my garage somewhere actually...this spring when I clean, maybe I'll see if I can find it. Oh, and the reason the car wouldn't start--I put the distributor in 180* off :oops: . Yea, there's actually more than one TDC lol. Put it in right and it fired right up...whoops. Anyway, glad to see you're still at it!! You're getting there for sure...
Napalm? Lol That must have been fun. Its funny that you mention cars since my brothers were once working on a truck that had sat over the winter. Same old song and dance - gas down the carb, a big backfire, and them running to the house to grab the fire extinguisher. Haha, should have remembered that lesson.
I'm glad this bike is pretty easy to work on, it would probably have taken me forever to figure your 180* TDC issue.

By chance, I did get right using a gas can as a gas tank, no melting plastic reservoir of 93 octane fuel this time around. As soon as this fire sprang up, I ran the gas tank far away which stopped any siphoning action from putting more fuel to the flame. The bucket of oil slowly melting and about to leak was a little harder to pull away. And as you were, I'm still young and dumb willing to try almost anything (except waiting) to save this thing. It could have gone way worse, that's for sure.

Thanks for the stories, its nice having company. :bravo
Brant wrote:Someone might have those pieces laying around
That would be great! I'd be more than willing to buy them off someone.
I'd settle for names as well. The most popular google parts websites (babbits, etc) don't have diagrams that get into that level of detail. I'll be starting a long trawl through the annals of the internet type1 once work settles down a bit to find what I need. Any hints will help a great deal (I'll give you a shout out, I promise :-D )
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#117

Post by bigburlybug »

I've been doing some research and have a little more information on what all burnt. I've been able to find the choke dust cover (part# 16148-141-881)
Image
This cover goes on a housing cam type deal that opens the butterfly valve when full choke is on which I haven't been able to find.

The next part is part of a pump rod set (16019-463-004) which is no longer for sale at most retailers and probably would have been expensive anyways. Its the plastic piece for the accelerator pump adjustment arm.
Image

The final piece is the plastic in the choke rod set (16025-463-004) also no longer for sale at most retailers which also probably would have been expensive. It connects all of the rods together.
ImageImage

Still haven't bought replacement parts but getting close to it. Its good to put names to faces though.
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#118

Post by bigburlybug »

I got a whole carb rack for $30 bucks! dancr A local guy was kind enough to take pity on me and help me out. There's a little varnish on them and about three idle jets floating around in the #3 bowl so I definitely can't just swap out carbs. I'm trying to decide if I want to clean, check, and swap the whole #3 carb, which kind of feels like cheating, or just replace the plastics on the original carb working? Probably decide tomorrow, after I take some pictures and post them on here.

On the repair road again. :)
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#119

Post by bigburlybug »

The "new" carb rack is in front. It's from an '82 goldwing so probably like for like swap. Haven't done any research yet.
Image
It needed some cleaning and I wasn't sure if the jets and all that were directly transferable. I also wanted to have the pride of using my own rebuilt carbs so I decided to swap plastics where necessary. I also found this on ebay for $30
Image
which has all of the parts I needed. I'm pulling parts from the solo #3 purchase and verifying proper installation with the full carb rack. Definitely worth having bought both, especially if my rebuilt carbs don't work.

I started picking, pulling, and positively wrecking the burnt plastic so I could slide them and replace. It was a bit rough due to the state of things.
Image
Choke butterfly cam - new on left, burnt on right

Image
Choke Linkage bracket, burnt on top, new on bottom

It hasn't been too bad so far, I've got all the major pieces replaced.
Image
Choke Butterfly cam, dust cover, accelerator spring holder, and choke linkage bracket
Might put up something later about the choke butterfly cam removal, that was kind of tricky and almost required three arms.

There are some other pieces of plastic that aren't nearly as bad as the above and less important but are a little melted though still operable. The plan is to hook the carbs back into the gas can, but not the bike, to see if I can find the leak. Then I'll fix the leak and the remaining melty plastic easy peasey. lolol
Probably not though. At least now I have a couple of ways forwards of varying difficulty. Its feeling great out so the path of least resistance will increasingly be taken. :partytime
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Re: My New Old Bike - 1982 Gl 1100I Rebuild

#120

Post by bigburlybug »

So here's the little write up on how to remove severely burnt plastic butterfly choke cams. I didn't see one on the internet, likely because it isn't often done. Anyways.
Image
The mini-project, replace the right piece with the left piece
First off, have a fire extinguisher handy at all times when first starting up a repaired motorcycle for the first time. :) Then it'll look purty still.
Image
We're replacing the leftmost, black plastic piece
Second, take off the dome shaped dust cover. A tiny screwdriver works well to pry it off, there isn't anything special holding it on.
Image
Dust Cover Off
Then the butterfly choke has to come off. This means separating the #3 carb from the plenum half and then unscrewing the two screws holding the butterfly on.
Image
Butterfly off
Next is remove that whole axle remembering how the spring goes. Take a picture like I didn't. It isn't difficult to figure out how to put it back on though.
Image
butterfly axle
Now comes the hard part. This plastic piece (the one on the left is what we're working on)
Image
is held on by the tiny wire (a C-clip without the convenient holes") in a channel on the right most post show here
Image

You have to have the proper tool (sorry, can't tell you what that is), or two screw drivers and three hands to make it easy. If you're willing to get a little frustrated, two hands will do. Basically, while the plastic is giving you little space to work with, you have to get the two screw drivers on the ends of the "C-Clip" and force it open enough to get it out of the channel. Look at the spring below it, take a picture, then pull the plastic all the way off and the its free. Reverse the process with the new one.

So that's the write up. No one will probably need it which I'm perfectly ok with :)
If you even dream of beating me, you better wake up and apologize! :revolver
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Bikes - 1982 Gl1100 I
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