Air/Fuel adjustment or Sync Adjustment??

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cmyoch
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Re: Air/Fuel adjustment or Sync Adjustment??

#16

Post by cmyoch »

I addressed the #1 and #3 slides. I also found that my #4 manifold o-ring was broken so that may be the issue. I replaced the o-ring and I'm putting it back together now. Can anyone tell me the manifold to head torque spec? I cannot find it in my FSM.
1976 GL1000
1978 Yamaha XS650
1984 Harley Davidson XLH1000
1969 Camaro Z28
1977 Redheaded Wife (Better move her to the top of this list)
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Re: Air/Fuel adjustment or Sync Adjustment??

#17

Post by WingMan71 »

cmyoch wrote:I spent just a couple minutes in the garage tonight and the cable is not the culprit. I'll pick up some 0000 steel wool tomorrow and give the slides a good polish hopefully tomorrow.

When I went through these this time, I did not break the carbs down fully. This was a simple cleaning and refresh of all the ports and jets, adjust all the mixture screws, and reassemble.
Improper setting of the pilot (idle mixture) screws can cause a hanging idle. A hanging idle is an indication that the idle mixture is too lean and you need to enrich the idle mixture.

Turn the pilot screws all the way back in for a bit just to see where you currently have them set. What ever that setting is, say 2 turns out, increase it by 1/2 turn more out to enrich the mixture. Then try running the engine like that to see if the hanging idle goes away. If not, go another 1/2 turn more out to make it richer and try again.

Remember that Honda has set their carbs to run EXTREMELY lean at idle, which is why they have to add air-cut valves to the carbs to prevent backfiring during closed throttle deceleration.

***
1983 GL650 Silver Wing Interstate
2006 Gold Wing GL1800 CSC Trike
1982 CB750 Custom
1976 Gold Wing GL1000 LTD - SOLD :(
1987 Gold Wing GL1200A Aspencade - SOLD :(
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Re: Air/Fuel adjustment or Sync Adjustment??

#18

Post by WingMan71 »

cmyoch wrote:... Can anyone tell me the manifold to head torque spec? I cannot find it in my FSM.
Can't find it in the FSM either.

Found it in my copy of Mike Nixon's great "Rebuilding the Honda GL1000 Carburetors" book.

90 in. lb., which is 7.5 ft. lb.

***
1983 GL650 Silver Wing Interstate
2006 Gold Wing GL1800 CSC Trike
1982 CB750 Custom
1976 Gold Wing GL1000 LTD - SOLD :(
1987 Gold Wing GL1200A Aspencade - SOLD :(
U.S. Navy SWO 1967-1976
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cmyoch
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Re: Air/Fuel adjustment or Sync Adjustment??

#19

Post by cmyoch »

WingMan71 wrote:
cmyoch wrote:... Can anyone tell me the manifold to head torque spec? I cannot find it in my FSM.
Can't find it in the FSM either.

Found it in my copy of Mike Nixon's great "Rebuilding the Honda GL1000 Carburetors" book.

90 in. lb., which is 7.5 ft. lb.

***
Thanks!
1976 GL1000
1978 Yamaha XS650
1984 Harley Davidson XLH1000
1969 Camaro Z28
1977 Redheaded Wife (Better move her to the top of this list)
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Re: Air/Fuel adjustment or Sync Adjustment??

#20

Post by cmyoch »

WingMan71 wrote:
cmyoch wrote:I spent just a couple minutes in the garage tonight and the cable is not the culprit. I'll pick up some 0000 steel wool tomorrow and give the slides a good polish hopefully tomorrow.

When I went through these this time, I did not break the carbs down fully. This was a simple cleaning and refresh of all the ports and jets, adjust all the mixture screws, and reassemble.
Improper setting of the pilot (idle mixture) screws can cause a hanging idle. A hanging idle is an indication that the idle mixture is too lean and you need to enrich the idle mixture.

Turn the pilot screws all the way back in for a bit just to see where you currently have them set. What ever that setting is, say 2 turns out, increase it by 1/2 turn more out to enrich the mixture. Then try running the engine like that to see if the hanging idle goes away. If not, go another 1/2 turn more out to make it richer and try again.

Remember that Honda has set their carbs to run EXTREMELY lean at idle, which is why they have to add air-cut valves to the carbs to prevent backfiring during closed throttle deceleration.

***
My motion pro 90 degree driver broke so I need to purchase another one to do this job. There's a nicer gear driven one I found for $70 unless anyone knows of an alternative tool?
1976 GL1000
1978 Yamaha XS650
1984 Harley Davidson XLH1000
1969 Camaro Z28
1977 Redheaded Wife (Better move her to the top of this list)
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Re: Air/Fuel adjustment or Sync Adjustment??

#21

Post by cmyoch »

WingMan71 wrote:
cmyoch wrote:I spent just a couple minutes in the garage tonight and the cable is not the culprit. I'll pick up some 0000 steel wool tomorrow and give the slides a good polish hopefully tomorrow.

When I went through these this time, I did not break the carbs down fully. This was a simple cleaning and refresh of all the ports and jets, adjust all the mixture screws, and reassemble.
Improper setting of the pilot (idle mixture) screws can cause a hanging idle. A hanging idle is an indication that the idle mixture is too lean and you need to enrich the idle mixture.

Turn the pilot screws all the way back in for a bit just to see where you currently have them set. What ever that setting is, say 2 turns out, increase it by 1/2 turn more out to enrich the mixture. Then try running the engine like that to see if the hanging idle goes away. If not, go another 1/2 turn more out to make it richer and try again.

Remember that Honda has set their carbs to run EXTREMELY lean at idle, which is why they have to add air-cut valves to the carbs to prevent backfiring during closed throttle deceleration.

***

This would pertain to the 1100 carbs also I would assume? My biggest frustration from day one is knowing I have carbs that don't match the correct year of the bike.
1976 GL1000
1978 Yamaha XS650
1984 Harley Davidson XLH1000
1969 Camaro Z28
1977 Redheaded Wife (Better move her to the top of this list)
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Re: Air/Fuel adjustment or Sync Adjustment??

#22

Post by jdvorchak »

Once you have them preset, as they are now, I'd only try mixture adjust as a LAST resort. If you can't find a hanging linkage or cable and you feel that you have done a good job of checking for vacuum leaks, try some Seafoam or Techron in the fuel for a tank full. See if that completes the cleaning of the one or two passages you have open but not fully clean. Also keep in mind the air is still pretty cool here and I'm not sure you ran it long enough to get the engine up to temp. Cool and cold air is more dense and that equates to running a little lean.

Long story short. Ride it for a full tank full first then you can do any touch up needed. I run into similar problems with these old bikes I revive. I'll bench sync and use FSM presets and if idle is smooth I'll ride them a while. You'd be surprised how the idle and overall running seems to change daily with some exercise. Usually I have to reduce the idle after just one or two short test rides as things settle in.
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Re: Air/Fuel adjustment or Sync Adjustment??

#23

Post by WingMan71 »

cmyoch wrote:This would pertain to the 1100 carbs also I would assume? My biggest frustration from day one is knowing I have carbs that don't match the correct year of the bike.
Yes. The information about pilot screw settings, hanging idle and running lean apply to all Honda carbs with idle circuits and pilot screws.

In your case, since you mentioned that you found a torn intake manifold o-ring on one cylinder, that is most likely the cause of your lean idle condition. With that o-ring fixed, you will probably find that your pilot screw settings are OK as is.

***
1983 GL650 Silver Wing Interstate
2006 Gold Wing GL1800 CSC Trike
1982 CB750 Custom
1976 Gold Wing GL1000 LTD - SOLD :(
1987 Gold Wing GL1200A Aspencade - SOLD :(
U.S. Navy SWO 1967-1976
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Re: Air/Fuel adjustment or Sync Adjustment??

#24

Post by cmyoch »

Unfortunately, the replaced o-ring did not solve the issue. I did give my tank its first treatment of seafoam. I'll put some miles on this weekend and see if it levels out.

Otherwise, I have the nicer, more expensive, Motion Pro gear driven 90 degree tool on the way that i can mess with air screws later on.
1976 GL1000
1978 Yamaha XS650
1984 Harley Davidson XLH1000
1969 Camaro Z28
1977 Redheaded Wife (Better move her to the top of this list)
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Re: Air/Fuel adjustment or Sync Adjustment??

#25

Post by BustedKnuckles »

I'm curious how this played out, any updates?
1976 GL1000
1969 CL350 Scrambler
1982 CB450T

1967 Chevy El Camino 396
1978 Dodge Class C Georgie Boy Cruise Master
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Re: Air/Fuel adjustment or Sync Adjustment??

#26

Post by cmyoch »

I regret to report that the bike did not run any better after this. I walked away from it for a couple months due to aggravation. Last week I pulled the carb rack AGAIN and started the cleaning process again. I dipped all my brass parts in the carb can while I shot cleaner and air through all passages. Everything is reinstalled with the exception of one air screw. The head snapped while tightening. I have a replacement on the way from ebay ($10 shipped) I also sourced fresh air screw o rings and manifold o rings from the local Honda shop as a precaution. I'm determined to get this to work. I've invested enough time in it and I know the bike runs good when in tune.

I regret saying that I have 1100 carbs on my GL1000. I didn't do this, it just came that way. Someone did this 20 years ago for some reason. I know they work, I just need to get them dialed in properly. I posted yesterday to see if anyone else has this setup. I am setting my air screws at 2.5 turns out and starting from there. I really do not look forward to adjusting air screws.
1976 GL1000
1978 Yamaha XS650
1984 Harley Davidson XLH1000
1969 Camaro Z28
1977 Redheaded Wife (Better move her to the top of this list)
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Re: Air/Fuel adjustment or Sync Adjustment??

#27

Post by BustedKnuckles »

I'm in the same boat as you. I got my bike from a buddy and have been combing through it getting it to run properly. Charging and ignition systems are on point. Working on air and fuel delivery now, starting with the most obvious (filters, vacuum leaks, etc.). Look at my thread, maybe something will help. Please post as you make progress. Here is my link: https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic ... 30&t=63285
1976 GL1000
1969 CL350 Scrambler
1982 CB450T

1967 Chevy El Camino 396
1978 Dodge Class C Georgie Boy Cruise Master
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Re: Air/Fuel adjustment or Sync Adjustment??

#28

Post by gltriker »

cmyoch wrote:I regret to report that the bike did not run any better after this. I walked away from it for a couple months due to aggravation. Last week I pulled the carb rack AGAIN and started the cleaning process again. I dipped all my brass parts in the carb can while I shot cleaner and air through all passages. Everything is reinstalled with the exception of one air screw. The head snapped while tightening. I have a replacement on the way from ebay ($10 shipped) I also sourced fresh air screw o rings and manifold o rings from the local Honda shop as a precaution. I'm determined to get this to work. I've invested enough time in it and I know the bike runs good when in tune.

I regret saying that I have 1100 carbs on my GL1000. I didn't do this, it just came that way. Someone did this 20 years ago for some reason. I know they work, I just need to get them dialed in properly. I posted yesterday to see if anyone else has this setup. I am setting my air screws at 2.5 turns out and starting from there. I really do not look forward to adjusting air screws.
Respectfully speaking, they aren't air screws.
Those pilot fuel adjusting screws purpose is to regulate the volume of liquid fuel being discharged out of the brass pilot tube, standing downstream of the throttle plate, into the throat of the carburetor.
Cliff (74yrs ;) )

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RE: a thorough fuel tank cleaning
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1953 H-D Servi-car, naked, 1969-1978 (serial#53G1559 committed to memory!)
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cmyoch
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Re: Air/Fuel adjustment or Sync Adjustment??

#29

Post by cmyoch »

BustedKnuckles wrote:I'm in the same boat as you. I got my bike from a buddy and have been combing through it getting it to run properly. Charging and ignition systems are on point. Working on air and fuel delivery now, starting with the most obvious (filters, vacuum leaks, etc.). Look at my thread, maybe something will help. Please post as you make progress. Here is my link: https://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic ... 30&t=63285
I read through your post a bit. Hopefully between the both of us, we'll have our '76's roadworthy. Here's my laundry list of improvements:

Randaak carb kit(Correct kit for the GL1100 carbs after tearing into them and discovering they were swapped)
Replaced coil
New plug caps
New points ignition (replaced everything with new components)
New belts
New valve cover gaskets
HD mufflers (replaced when horseshoe was damaged in an accident)
Corbin gunfighter seat (local Craigslist treasure)
replaced handlebar switches
Rebuilt brake components (master cylinders, new hoses, pads, rebuilt calipers, etc)
Radiator boiled and sealed
Fuel tank boiled out and sealed
Brand new starter with solenoid (spins over like a dream)
New battery with new cables


I'm sure I'm missing some items. I replaced as much as I could with new components as I discovered issues.
1976 GL1000
1978 Yamaha XS650
1984 Harley Davidson XLH1000
1969 Camaro Z28
1977 Redheaded Wife (Better move her to the top of this list)
BustedKnuckles
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Re: Air/Fuel adjustment or Sync Adjustment??

#30

Post by BustedKnuckles »

What kind of coils did you install?
1976 GL1000
1969 CL350 Scrambler
1982 CB450T

1967 Chevy El Camino 396
1978 Dodge Class C Georgie Boy Cruise Master
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