'82 GL1100 Head thread
Moderators: CYBORG, Oldewing, robin1731, Forum Moderators
- 230Rocket
- Billet Alum. Member
- Posts: 265
- Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 9:49 am
- Location: McKinney, Texas
'82 GL1100 Head thread
After rolling back from Luckenbach, great ride by the way, did we tell y’all, my suspicions of a problem with at least one of the Turtle’s head gaskets were confirmed. Not only did the right hand side muffler trickle a tiny stream of water when I started it at the old post office for the 300 mile run to Dallas, but there was heavy build-up of brown greasy sludge in the neck of the radiator when I stripped it down. And it’s never been much of a flying machine since I put it on the road back in January 2015.
And here’s what the RHS looks like after opening it up…
Hard to see a definite point of damage or blown gasket but clear to see that water has been seeping from its place into the combustion chamber on #1 cylinder at least. Heavy deposits on the exhaust valve and piston top suggest uneven mixture burn, poor combustion and that suggests maybe water ingress?
But as a testament to how bomb-proof these motors can be, it was still running fine for the 1050 miles I covered.
After a couple of hours with a piece of glass and some 220 grit the deep scratches are nearly out – just hope I’ve kept the surface true – and now I can set to cleaning out the ports, gently lapping the valves back in and finishing both the surfaces before starting on the left hand side…
cheers
Dean
And here’s what the RHS looks like after opening it up…
Hard to see a definite point of damage or blown gasket but clear to see that water has been seeping from its place into the combustion chamber on #1 cylinder at least. Heavy deposits on the exhaust valve and piston top suggest uneven mixture burn, poor combustion and that suggests maybe water ingress?
But as a testament to how bomb-proof these motors can be, it was still running fine for the 1050 miles I covered.
After a couple of hours with a piece of glass and some 220 grit the deep scratches are nearly out – just hope I’ve kept the surface true – and now I can set to cleaning out the ports, gently lapping the valves back in and finishing both the surfaces before starting on the left hand side…
cheers
Dean
1982 GL1100 Fat Turtle
- ericheath
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 9580
- Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:20 am
- Location: Winnipeg, Manituba
Re: '82 GL1100 Head thread
While it's apart, give the water pump impeller a feel for side-to-side play to see if that is also part of the issue. All the ones I've seen blow have been between the two cylinders. Yours looks like it may have been towards the bottom outside edge. You caught it early, before much steam cleaning could occur. I yield the balance of my time
It's worth getting a machinists rule or certified flat edge to check your head for flatness as well as the block. I have one that is a little light at the base of the oil galley return.
It's worth getting a machinists rule or certified flat edge to check your head for flatness as well as the block. I have one that is a little light at the base of the oil galley return.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
- 230Rocket
- Billet Alum. Member
- Posts: 265
- Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 9:49 am
- Location: McKinney, Texas
Re: '82 GL1100 Head thread
Eric,
Good info there, I'll get them checked out for true before putting them back. Here's a couple more photos of what I found, close up of the #1 cylinder head where it's possible to see the water/oil sludge evidence. This was taken without even touching the head, so just as it came off the bike;
And this one taken just as I removed the gasket;
And this one is a close up of part of the surface at the base of #3 cylinder where a previous "enthusiast" was a little overzealous with something sharp when cleaning a previous blown gasket...
I'm a bit concerned about the area between the two cylinders as it seems that water has eaten into the surface of the head at this point quite a bit so I don't know how far to work the surface at taking out blemishes. I'm assuming that as it's exposed only to the water jacket as long as there's a true flat surface towards the cylinder edges for the gasket to seal, all should be well? So keep the info and comments coming, I'm always interested to learn more.
cheers
Dean
Good info there, I'll get them checked out for true before putting them back. Here's a couple more photos of what I found, close up of the #1 cylinder head where it's possible to see the water/oil sludge evidence. This was taken without even touching the head, so just as it came off the bike;
And this one taken just as I removed the gasket;
And this one is a close up of part of the surface at the base of #3 cylinder where a previous "enthusiast" was a little overzealous with something sharp when cleaning a previous blown gasket...
I'm a bit concerned about the area between the two cylinders as it seems that water has eaten into the surface of the head at this point quite a bit so I don't know how far to work the surface at taking out blemishes. I'm assuming that as it's exposed only to the water jacket as long as there's a true flat surface towards the cylinder edges for the gasket to seal, all should be well? So keep the info and comments coming, I'm always interested to learn more.
cheers
Dean
1982 GL1100 Fat Turtle
- flyin900
- Gold Member
- Posts: 1489
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:50 pm
- Location: Canada
Re: '82 GL1100 Head thread
I would get the head decked at a machine shop to verify the flatness and get rid of those marks. I did the same job you did with the glass and sandpaper, yet when I checked the head for flatness it was out of spec. (.004) is the maximum deviation with a feeler gauge.
If you have it all ready to go a shop shouldn't be too much to do the head(s) and ensure they are smooth and flat.
If you have it all ready to go a shop shouldn't be too much to do the head(s) and ensure they are smooth and flat.
Current Bikes:
1966 CL77 - Honda 305cc - Dual purpose - "Gentleman's Scrambler" was a period moniker.
1967 CL175K0 - Low production number with #802 engine serial- winter 2019/2020 full restoration.
1972 CB350F - Baby Four with low mileage - Cosmetic refresh to the next level 2021/2022.
1978 CB550K - Very original bike with only 7499 Km. from new - light cleanup and refresh done.
1983 CB1100F - Canadian model - DOHC Supersport in pristine low kilometre condition from new.
1984 GL1200 - Standard model in showroom condition - two owner bike from new.
1984 CX650E - Restored summer 2017 - a rare Eurosport model - excellent one owner bike.
1966 CL77 - Honda 305cc - Dual purpose - "Gentleman's Scrambler" was a period moniker.
1967 CL175K0 - Low production number with #802 engine serial- winter 2019/2020 full restoration.
1972 CB350F - Baby Four with low mileage - Cosmetic refresh to the next level 2021/2022.
1978 CB550K - Very original bike with only 7499 Km. from new - light cleanup and refresh done.
1983 CB1100F - Canadian model - DOHC Supersport in pristine low kilometre condition from new.
1984 GL1200 - Standard model in showroom condition - two owner bike from new.
1984 CX650E - Restored summer 2017 - a rare Eurosport model - excellent one owner bike.
- JBz
- SUPER BIKER!!!!
- Posts: 3070
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:11 pm
- Location: dayton nv
Re: '82 GL1100 Head thread
those scratches do look rather deep. This is what I do. Its up to You. Im old school . Get some NEW box cutter blades. Razor blades are NOT rigid enough or wide enough. Put it between your finger and thumb at a right angle to the head and use it in a scraping motion across the head.When it gets dull toss it and get another one. You can dykem the surface if you want. Be careful dykem can make you dizzy real fast so put it on and walk away for a few. Id probably toss that one exhaust valve. Good Luck. jb
jbz........... Thinkin about sh-t too hard and You wont get anything done
- 230Rocket
- Billet Alum. Member
- Posts: 265
- Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 9:49 am
- Location: McKinney, Texas
Re: '82 GL1100 Head thread
More good tips! Thanks guys. Still looking for a machine shop in DFW if anyone knows a good one...
Cheers
Dean
Cheers
Dean
1982 GL1100 Fat Turtle
- robin1731
- Membership Admin
- Posts: 21724
- Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 8:31 am
- Location: Decatur, Indiana
Re: '82 GL1100 Head thread
I would think there would be many. Check local bike shops to see where they take their stuff. Also indy auto repair shops. Some NAPA stores do have machine shops in house.230Rocket wrote:More good tips! Thanks guys. Still looking for a machine shop in DFW if anyone knows a good one...
Cheers
Dean
.
1976 Goldwing Super Sport
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
1985 Honda Elite
1976 KZ900 Dragbike
1992 ZX7 Dragbike (KZ900 style motor w/NOS)
and a rotation of various purchases
Randakk approved Carb Rebuilder
- JBz
- SUPER BIKER!!!!
- Posts: 3070
- Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:11 pm
- Location: dayton nv
Re: '82 GL1100 Head thread
this is what I was referring too Dean.......... and you can do the block and any mating surfaces also.jb
http://www.metalscraping.com/
http://www.metalscraping.com/
jbz........... Thinkin about sh-t too hard and You wont get anything done
- 230Rocket
- Billet Alum. Member
- Posts: 265
- Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 9:49 am
- Location: McKinney, Texas
Re: '82 GL1100 Head thread
I'm back onto getting the heads properly finished to go back on Turtle, been overseas on business and all sorts of crap got in the way of progress.
We've found that the right hand head is out of true by about 0.005'' and I was wondering what is the tolerance for getting the heads skimmed before they are scrap and have to be replaced?
Does anyone know if I can get these skimmed by enough to true them up? I'll plan to get them done as a pair, no matter how the left one measures up...
Cheers
Dean
We've found that the right hand head is out of true by about 0.005'' and I was wondering what is the tolerance for getting the heads skimmed before they are scrap and have to be replaced?
Does anyone know if I can get these skimmed by enough to true them up? I'll plan to get them done as a pair, no matter how the left one measures up...
Cheers
Dean
1982 GL1100 Fat Turtle
- ericheath
- Honored Life Member
- Posts: 9580
- Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:20 am
- Location: Winnipeg, Manituba
Re: '82 GL1100 Head thread
Some sources say 0.002", others 0.004" that I have read.
Whatever I suggest here should be given ample time for a moderator to delicately correct. I apologize in advance.
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
77 WING, 1200 engine with 77 heads, cams, gl1100 foot pegs, Magna V65 front end, 764A carbs, [-gone Suzuki M109 monoshock--, replaced with gl1100 shocks] gl 1200 swing arm, gl1500 final drive, wheel and rear brakes Valkyrie seat, Meanstreak tank, Sportster pipes, Power Arc ignition off crank.
77 Wing. black
83 Wing, in pieces
"Continuing education is important even if the subject matter is fairly useless (as in this case)."---Greg Foresi
- 230Rocket
- Billet Alum. Member
- Posts: 265
- Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 9:49 am
- Location: McKinney, Texas
Re: '82 GL1100 Head thread
I've seen 0.004'' too, so is that the tolerance before skimming is required? I'm hoping the answer is yes and the resolution is to get them skimmed. Otherwise I may be looking for new heads and could well be in the same situation buying something second hand.
Can anyone confirm if I just need to get them skimmed back to true?
cheers
Dean
Can anyone confirm if I just need to get them skimmed back to true?
cheers
Dean
1982 GL1100 Fat Turtle
- flyin900
- Gold Member
- Posts: 1489
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:50 pm
- Location: Canada
Re: '82 GL1100 Head thread
Book says the variation tolerance is .004 and anything beyond that needs decking. I had them done at my local small town guy and didn't check with any other maximum or minimum material removal spec for the decking. I don't recall one in the manual, so unless you are concerned with the valves hitting the pistons I would expect a light clean up should be good. Most guys won't spend the money for machine shop work, hence the scratched surfaces you have there that were left like that and reinstalled.
Current Bikes:
1966 CL77 - Honda 305cc - Dual purpose - "Gentleman's Scrambler" was a period moniker.
1967 CL175K0 - Low production number with #802 engine serial- winter 2019/2020 full restoration.
1972 CB350F - Baby Four with low mileage - Cosmetic refresh to the next level 2021/2022.
1978 CB550K - Very original bike with only 7499 Km. from new - light cleanup and refresh done.
1983 CB1100F - Canadian model - DOHC Supersport in pristine low kilometre condition from new.
1984 GL1200 - Standard model in showroom condition - two owner bike from new.
1984 CX650E - Restored summer 2017 - a rare Eurosport model - excellent one owner bike.
1966 CL77 - Honda 305cc - Dual purpose - "Gentleman's Scrambler" was a period moniker.
1967 CL175K0 - Low production number with #802 engine serial- winter 2019/2020 full restoration.
1972 CB350F - Baby Four with low mileage - Cosmetic refresh to the next level 2021/2022.
1978 CB550K - Very original bike with only 7499 Km. from new - light cleanup and refresh done.
1983 CB1100F - Canadian model - DOHC Supersport in pristine low kilometre condition from new.
1984 GL1200 - Standard model in showroom condition - two owner bike from new.
1984 CX650E - Restored summer 2017 - a rare Eurosport model - excellent one owner bike.
-
- Brass Member
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:00 am
Re: '82 GL1100 Head thread
Never could understand why someone would go through all the work to pull the heads and do that much of a job and skimp on 50 bucks worth of machining to do the job properly...
- 230Rocket
- Billet Alum. Member
- Posts: 265
- Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 9:49 am
- Location: McKinney, Texas
Re: '82 GL1100 Head thread
I've been away for a while, spring break, kids vacation all that jazz and so I've just got back to this job and did some more cleaning up on the motor while it sits waiting for my heads to come back form being checked and skimmed. Trouble is look what I've found! This is number 1 cylinder and on looking real close it looks for all the world as though the iron liner has corroded through! I don't know the history of the bike before I got it, but I do know it was standing for a long time with very damaged carburetors and I'm thinking maybe whatever gummed up and corroded the carbs made its way into #1 and sat there rusting away?
Anyway, cast your beady eyes all over these and confirm my suspicions that it's goosed. I do have a low mileage 1200 motor sitting in a frame that I'm now eying up as a swap. How hard is it to plonk the 1200 into the 1100 mounts? (1985 GL1200 into a 1982 GL1100?)
cheers
Dean
Anyway, cast your beady eyes all over these and confirm my suspicions that it's goosed. I do have a low mileage 1200 motor sitting in a frame that I'm now eying up as a swap. How hard is it to plonk the 1200 into the 1100 mounts? (1985 GL1200 into a 1982 GL1100?)
cheers
Dean
- Attachments
-
- #1 cyl close damage3.JPG (160.77 KiB) Viewed 180 times
1982 GL1100 Fat Turtle
- wingrider
- SUPER BIKER!!!!
- Posts: 3724
- Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 12:15 pm
- Location: Maple Lake, MN USA
Re: '82 GL1100 Head thread
1200 in an 1100 frame is cake. Pull the output shaft out of your 1100, and toss it in the 1200. That and a hydraulic clutch lever and tubing, and you are good to go! All the mounts line up like it was made for it. You will need to do a little wiring job to get spark, but all in all, a great swap.
2002 1800 Wing
2001 Valkyrie Interstate
1978 1200 EFI Wing with Motorvation Coupe Royale sidecar
1977 1200 Wing cafe/bobber project
1974 Suzuki GT550
2001 Valkyrie Interstate
1978 1200 EFI Wing with Motorvation Coupe Royale sidecar
1977 1200 Wing cafe/bobber project
1974 Suzuki GT550
-
- Similar Topics
- Replies
- Views
- Last post
-
- 27 Replies
- 989 Views
-
Last post by Fred Camper
-
- 10 Replies
- 409 Views
-
Last post by CYBORG
-
- 6 Replies
- 218 Views
-
Last post by Sidecar Bob
-
- 19 Replies
- 503 Views
-
Last post by ehadams
-
- 7 Replies
- 365 Views
-
Last post by ljurgens