Head Gasket Failure!!

[olchris]

A few months ago need to swap out a head gasket on my #1 wing.. Did so with "UNKNOWN NEW NO NAME GASKETS" and when filled with water it weeped from the mating surfaces... Stripped down again looking for the forceps or scalple that i "must" have left in there but noting looked out of order.. Then split up the new set of spare HG's (green starts with V) fit in in all OK .....

Very recently i needed to do checks so fitted the other "UNKNOWN NEW NO NAME GASKETS" .. Had a good look while on bench and could poke a feeler gauge between the gasket and the block ?????? checked my tensions and upped them to 50lbs but still could poke 20mm off a .005 feeler gauge between head, gasket and block... That has to leak water without any pressure..

Lucky im retired and got time to burn

I coated this with "copper spray permatex" and you can see where the surfaces mated, around the "compression" ring and slightly around the oil return tunnel....



and not such mating around the top half of gasket.... still shiney, wet/tacky. I put 50lb all round with several checks !!!



Pulled the head off and measured "crushed" gasket at "compression" ring using the two rings....



Then the gasket material....



I used 50 lbs dont forget.. a difference of .020th..... that is huge IMOafter being fitted and compressed..

I recieved a Honda gasket today and was realllllllly realllllllly curious about the variation of compression ring and gasket material.. As i know for a fact that the last gasket fitted was .004th bigger at the compression ring... (not much to squash @ 45lb tension)



Honda gasket between two compression rings



And the gasket material... You can say no difference!!!.

It is apparent and suggested to throw away "aftermarket" gaskets and only use Honda, but your going to use them, it is absolutely necessary to check there is minimal difference between compression ring and gasket material...

[Oldewing]

Nice work, thanks for posting.

[Whiskerfish]

I would also check your head and block for flatness

[salukispeed]

Is it possible the head bolts are bottoming in the threaded holes somehow. PO filled with RTV or dirt/corrosion. Are all the bolts the same length. I don't remember. Looks like the top never clamped down or something got in the way somehow. Mother Honda seems to have best gaskets but this seems like something more. Did the bike severely overheat ? I had a 2.0 liter Chevy that got so hot the head sort of squished around the gasket and was thinner on inspection.

[zman]

Yea like salukispeed said seems strange with a thicker gasket..should have compressed ,I would be running the bolts into the head till they bottom out then measure whats left out just to be sure, might have to change head bolts around or clean out the bottom of the threads.

[olchris]

A little bit more input re head gaskets.... I source these "aftermarket" head gaskets via ebay and found in Germany... About Au$70 a pair delivered, thats OK by me... I checked the compression ring thickness and the gasket material thickness and found a difference of about .004 thou... I would feel very comfortable using these as the thickness difference is minimal...

[jdvorchak]

Great detective work!

But please as others have said check the head and cylinder for flatness (is that a word?). Easy with a feeler gauge and a window pane.

You are correct tho in that people will still buy aftermarket instead of OEM head gaskets. When almost every post on head gaskets, here and on the inter web, all say OEM is the only way to go. There are only a couple of parts on these old bike that require OEM but people still go cheap. Then they end up spending even more time and money for OEM. You have to add the price of aftermarket gaskets to the cost of the OEM to get it right.

[Steve81GL1100]

Totally agree with sticking to OEM Honda head gaskets. Some things it doesn't matter, but ALL Hondas, cars and bikes alike, prefer OEM head gaskets. Can't explain why, it just is...
Another thing to check that a lot of people don't think about is the alignment pins. If the head has been milled or the block surface decked at all, the pins are probably too long and the head will never seat fully. Gotta grind a few thousandths off those pins.
Steve

[Old Fogey]

I'm still trying to work this out.
First you had a gasket blow, you replaced it with a Vesrah (Japanese) and all was well, apparently.
So what happened that you then had to try the 'no-name' gasket?

Assuming that the gasket was compressed at the rings, there is only 0.0023" difference on your gauge, so how did you manage to get a 0.005" feeler in?

Then you bought a Honda gasket, but also another make, Polish gaskets sourced in Germany

And now what you have fitted, and how are they doing?

I'm amazed that the gasket manufacturers haven't caught on that all their gaskets are rubbish, after all these 'use OEM only' posts!
I admit that there is some total crap out there, but there is nothing wrong with using quality aftermarket. I'm convinced that 95% of head gasket problems are in the fitting.

[olchris]

There is nothing to "work out" in this exercise.... Im just trying to highlight the fact that some head gaskets have a very thick compression ring, compared to the gasket proper.. (which im sure caused me to have water draining on 2 seperate occasions)
In the first set of 2 pictures shows the aftermarket gasket with a .023 thickness difference....
The next 2 pics show a Honda gasket with ~.001 difference..
And the Polish/German gasket has a .003 difference in thickness....

So hopefully some owners who have little or no experience with GL1000 head gaskets can glean some usefull information before fitting their gaskets... I wish i knew this prior to my first gasket change..

[Old Fogey]

Ahh.....I got the decimal point wrong
Yeah, 0.023" is a bit ridiculous ! I don't think you stood a chance of sealing anything with that, at any torque reading.

[Apatton]

I still don't get it, you fit a feeler between the block and head with the gasket etc mounted? That sounds like your head or block arent properly surfaced to me.

I'm over a year into running some cheap chinese eBay gaskets. Tons of prep time taken, block and heads surfaced with a sheet of plate glass and fine grit paper

[olchris]

I still don't get it, you fit a feeler between the block and head with the gasket etc mounted? That sounds like your head or block arent properly surfaced to me.

I'm over a year into running some cheap chinese eBay gaskets. Tons of prep time taken, block and heads surfaced with a sheet of plate glass and fine grit paper

All i'm trying to do is make people aware that "SOME" gaskets can have a "SIGNIFICANT" difference between the thickness' of the compression ring and the gasket material... eg first pictures where there is a .023" difference "AFTER BEING COMPRESSED" and removed..
Cheap and cheerfull gasket from (china/asia/mexico/spain/where ever) can certainly do the job successfully, like yours have...

Do all the prep work you want but if the compression ring of the head gasket is fatter than the gasket by .025+" you will have little chance compressing it enough for the gasket material to seal oil and water galleries...

Am i using the term "COMPRESSION RING" wrongly???? maybe i should have used COMBUSTION RING I know what i mean....

[CYBORG]

I know what you mean