I was very grateful to have Ritalz stop by today after the St. Louis breakfast run to help me get my carbs in sync. We hooked up his carb sticks and went at it for about an hour or so. All seemed to be rolling along pretty well until Al discovered that the idle screw on the number 4 carb had minimal to no effect in helping sync everything up. I'm talking about the screw backed out almost all the way and then turned in almost all the way. It's my understanding that you should be able to see the two parts expand or collapse towards each other as you turn the screw.We seemed to be able to get a positive response from the other 3 cylinders except for #4. Could the spring be shot? Has anyone else had a similar issue?

Ritalz will chime in on his take on this issue when he reads this. We were both kinda stumped.

Also, I know my valves were adjusted properly and I had my timing set when I replaced my points plate. I'm pretty darn sure that I got my valve timing correct when I replaced my belts but what kind of impact would this have on carb vacuum if by chance I was off a bit, say one tooth? I'm bringing this up after Al and I had a good conversation about what we were seeing in the carb sticks today.

Afterwards, Al hooked up his 75 and there was a night and day difference between his bike and mine with regard to reading the sticks. It seemed as if my carbs didn't have enough vacuum to pull the mercury up the sticks at idle where his seemed effortless. That one was another stumper.

It was good to hear her run. I feel like I'm getting closer to having her on the road. I was pleased to hear the cooling fan kick on after running it for a while too.

_________________
1976 GL1000
1978 Yamaha XS650
1969 Camaro Z28
1977 Redheaded Wife (Better move her to the top of this list)

Pull the needle out..the tip maybe gone or broken off in the carb..not good..if so you need a new carb.

No vacuum = leak someplace.

_________________
81 DAILY RIDER sold her ((!
80 REBUILT SOLD
81 REBUILT SOLD!!!
81 REBUILT SOLD!!
82 REBUILT sold!!!
83 SOLD
78 REBUILT sold!!!
79 IN BASKET PARTS FOR SALE
75 REBUILT SOLD
76 SOLD/PARTIAL REBUILD
76 REBUILT AND SOLD
75 REBUILD SOLD
99 1500 SE SOLD
97 SE 1500 now my daily ride..not very naked

FAIR WINDS,
RB

You could also have some sticking rings.

Todd

_________________
Todd54219 - Common sense is not so common anymore
1976 Yellow GL1000

When the mix screw is screwed all the way in and the idle does not change then the idle circuit on that carb is blocked somewhere. If you have an IR reader test the headers at idle and odds are you will find that jug much cooler than the rest. If no IR Reader then a spray bottle of water works.

_________________
"I prefer the abstract concept of incoherence in the face of great feeling to beautiful, full sentences that convey little emotion." DDL
1978/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

Maybe idle screw was the wrong description. I'm talking about the set screws for adjusting the carbs to sync them. Ivacuum tested my carbs and they tested fine. I have new o-rings in the manifolds and I made sure the boots were tightened. I'll take some pics of what I'm talking about and post them.

_________________
1976 GL1000
1978 Yamaha XS650
1969 Camaro Z28
1977 Redheaded Wife (Better move her to the top of this list)

Ok now I understand. The adjuster on # 4 is used to balance the two sides, you are correct. Are you giving the throttle a blip between adjustments? you need to do that every time you touch a screw or locknut.

_________________
"I prefer the abstract concept of incoherence in the face of great feeling to beautiful, full sentences that convey little emotion." DDL
1978/9 Arthur Fulmer Dressed Road bike
1975 Naked Noisy and Nasty in town bike
and a whole garage full of possibilities!!

I found this on the web this morning. While it is written about a Masda, there is some merit in reading vacuum gauges and the many things that can be learned about a engine. Yesterday I was concerned about the very low readings on the carb stix and the inability to get #4 to respond to adjustments. We were able to get the other three adjusted somewhat even though the vacuum was way low. The boot clamps were tightened after the engine warmed up but we did not check for leaks anywhere else. We had no choice but to blip the throttle regularly to keep it running. I suggested that Craig very closely check his valve timing and we should investigate the #4 adjuster issue. I am not at all a carb guru but I would think his 1100 carbs would act very similar to mine when it comes to the sync process.




Common Problems

Slow up and down cycles may indicate fuel to air mixture problem
Low readings may indicate a leak in the intake manifold. (gaskets, hoses, etc)
Exhaust restrictions can cause low readings (plugged cat, crushed pipes, clogged muffler, etc)
Carbon in engines can occasionally cause valves to stick. This will result in transient vacuum changes
A burned exhaust valve may cause lower readings
Fluctuating readings at idle may indicate worn head components (stems, guides, cam, etc)
Fluctuating readings while cruising may indicate worn valve springs

Trouble-shooting with a vacuum gauge

Idle (Normal Vacuum)

An engine in good condition should have a gauge reading of 17 to 21 and hand should be steady.


Idle (consistent but very low reading)

A steady reading below 5 indicates a leaky manifold, manifold gasket or carburetor gasket. Also check heat riser.


Idle (consistent but low)

When gauge needle is steady at about 8 to 14 it generally indicates incorrect valve timing.


Idle (consistent but mildly low)

A reading lower than normal with the hand steady indicates that rings are in poor condition.

Idle (consistent but mildly low reading)

If normal is 20 inches and needle should go to approx 14 check timing. Spark may be retarded.


Idle (consistent but slightly low)

A reading of 13 to 16 generally indicates incorrect ignition timing.


Idle (with random mild drop)

When the hand drops occasionally from 3 to 5 points, from the normal reading, it generally indicates a sticking valve.


Idle (with consistent mild drop)

A burned valve will cause the needle to drop back several divisions each time that particular cylinder operates.


Idle (with consistent slight drop)

Leaking valves also show up on the gauge by the needle dropping back 3 or 4 divisions, whenever that valve opens.


Idle (with occasional mild drop)

Occasional drop as cylinder is firing may denote valve open or plug not firing.



Idle (constant mild drift)

Poor adjustment of the carburetor will cause the needle to float slowly between 12 and 16.


Idle (mildly low with constant small drift)

When needle drifts slowly between 14 and 16 it generally indicates that plug gaps are too close, or breaker points are not properly synchronized.


Idle (with constant large fluctuations)

This action usually indicates a leaky head gasket.


Idle (with fast vibration)

When needle has a fast vibration between appoximately 14 and 19 it indicates loose valve guides.

Cruising (big variations)

Wide variations of needle increasing with motor speed indicates weak, or broken valve springs.





Opening and closing throttle quickly

reading on an engine in good condition should drop to 2 and come back to 25.


Idle (slow steady drop)

Normal reading at start, but gradually drops, indicates choked muffler.

_________________
Al

1975 Goldwing 'Max'
1976 Goldwing 'Grocery Getter'
http://www.ngwclub.com/gallery/ritalz

We had consistent low vacuum readings which according to Al's post, should be valve timing. I'll start there and recheck my work. From there, I'll have to reset my ignition timing. That may be all we need to get the #4 carb to respond better. Who knows. We did find it perplexing though that adjusting the settings all the way in and out didn't show much response at all.

Valve settings are spot on. The number 1 exhaust valve was a little tight so I adjusted it. Jdorchack double checked compression a few weeks ago and all were in spec and consistent.

I know there are no exhaust restrictions because I'm running screaming eagle pipes off of a sportster. There is barely any baffle.

_________________
1976 GL1000
1978 Yamaha XS650
1969 Camaro Z28
1977 Redheaded Wife (Better move her to the top of this list)

Usually that means that cylinder isn't pulling it's own weight. In other words it ain't firing at idle. Start it up and reduce the choke as fast as you can letting the bike idle. Spray some water on each header to insure all 4 cylinders are firing. I'm betting #4 won't be as hot as the others.

Another way is to try to do the idle drop procedure. I'm betting #4 won't respond at all from the preset values.

That list of trouble shooting Al posted would be a good guidline to use if you were running one carb and had a common to all cylinders intake manifold. Those vacuum readings like "blip throttle and it should go from 2 to 25 inches" and "An engine in good condition should have a gauge reading of 17 to 21 and hand should be steady." I doublt you'll ever see 21 inches at idle on one of these muti-carb bikes. The normal would be 6 to 9 inches at idle.

_________________
The person with the most toys wins!
If it has wheels or a skirt you can't afford it.
Amateur Radio Station WW9L


1984 GL1200 STD
2010 HD Ultraglide Classic Limited

Previous bikes:2001 GL1800, 2000 Dyna Super Glide, 1972 CB350 K4, 1985 GL1200A, 1997 1200 Sportster, 84 GL1200I, 82 Honda CM400E, 81 Suzuki GS650L, 72 Triumph Bonneville 750, 72 Honda CB350, 66(?) Honda 305 Scrambler, 6? Yamaha yz250, 62 750 Matchless (Norton-Villers).
John

My other 2 Goldwings.... Yeah it's MBS..

#4 had compression which is a good start. I'd think it would be the coil but #3 was firing so that rules that out. I'll pull the #4 plug and test for spark. That basically leaves the carb to be the culprit, right?

_________________
1976 GL1000
1978 Yamaha XS650
1969 Camaro Z28
1977 Redheaded Wife (Better move her to the top of this list)

right! If the plug is firing then it's not getting gas.

_________________
The person with the most toys wins!
If it has wheels or a skirt you can't afford it.
Amateur Radio Station WW9L


1984 GL1200 STD
2010 HD Ultraglide Classic Limited

Previous bikes:2001 GL1800, 2000 Dyna Super Glide, 1972 CB350 K4, 1985 GL1200A, 1997 1200 Sportster, 84 GL1200I, 82 Honda CM400E, 81 Suzuki GS650L, 72 Triumph Bonneville 750, 72 Honda CB350, 66(?) Honda 305 Scrambler, 6? Yamaha yz250, 62 750 Matchless (Norton-Villers).
John

My other 2 Goldwings.... Yeah it's MBS..

I just wish I didn't have issues at every turn!

_________________
1976 GL1000
1978 Yamaha XS650
1969 Camaro Z28
1977 Redheaded Wife (Better move her to the top of this list)

There is two things that i would look at the frist one is if you do not have any fire
on the number 4 plug check the plug wire to make sure it is good and also check the
supresser that is in the spark plug boot if you still have them in the boots may be bad
second as far as the vac.reading go if you are running opened exhust this will change
the back prusser on the carbs and in turn will change the vac.spec. some times.
Rod

_________________
rod willis
1976 GL1000

Rod he has all new plugs, plug wires and NGK caps. Fire on all 4 was perfect a couple of weeks ago so I doubt he has ignition problems. Timing was spot on and compression was great and consistant accross all 4 cylinders.

I think he just missed getting #4 carb idle circuits clean. They are tiny little holes in the jets and in my opinion the only way to get them clean is boiling in distilled water for 15 or 20 minutes. On my Aspy I had tried 3 times to get those idle jets clean with soaking in carb cleaner and spraying them carb cleaner. I about gave myself frost bite holding those jets and squirting and then using compressed air in failed attemps to get them clean. The rest of his bike is in pretty good mechanical shape. I thin he only has this one little issue left to work through and I'll bet he can get it in one evening cleaning the #4 carb again. At least now we know he is down to one idle circuit in one carb! So easy now even a cave man can do it....



If you think you're the only one that has had issues think again. I had my carbs off 4 times before I got it right on the 85 Aspy. After I got it running and synced the carbs the pulse gens gave me fits. I had to cut out the stator 3 wire connector and solder the wires. New fork seals and I had to hand polish one fork tube because of a scratch. I had to remove the rear wheel and lube the splines and change rear end gear lube. Front forks were binding and had to re-torgue the stem nut and lubed the bearings. Changed the brake and clutch fluid front and rear. New belts and shifter shaft seal. I'm sure there was more but I can't think of it now.

I had to disassemble the entire front end of my 84 STD. Forks, fork springs, radiator boiled out, new water pump, new belts, new radiator hoses, thermo and cap, brakes and brake lines. New/old tail light assembly and wiring. Soldered the stator 3 wire connector. Remove rear wheel and lube splines and changed the rear end gear lube. Clutch was stuck and wouldn't disengage. I had to work through getting it unstuck. Lubed the thottle cables. Then I took my first ride around the block!

You've seen my bikes. They are in excellent shape and you could fill them with gas and ride either one coast to coast. I didn't buy them in that condition. I worked through the issues one issue at a time as did the rest of the folks on this forum. So keep the faith and you'll get there.

_________________
The person with the most toys wins!
If it has wheels or a skirt you can't afford it.
Amateur Radio Station WW9L


1984 GL1200 STD
2010 HD Ultraglide Classic Limited

Previous bikes:2001 GL1800, 2000 Dyna Super Glide, 1972 CB350 K4, 1985 GL1200A, 1997 1200 Sportster, 84 GL1200I, 82 Honda CM400E, 81 Suzuki GS650L, 72 Triumph Bonneville 750, 72 Honda CB350, 66(?) Honda 305 Scrambler, 6? Yamaha yz250, 62 750 Matchless (Norton-Villers).
John

My other 2 Goldwings.... Yeah it's MBS..

Thanks for the help John! I pulled the carb off so many times now I can knock that out pretty quick. I'll boil the jets tonight.

Rod, my mufflers have a minimal baffle in them, I'd say they are 90-95% open. I agree that there is hardly any back pressure at all. If this is confirmed that back pressure on these bikes has a lot to do with vacuum, I my hold off checking my valve timing. I know I got it either dead on or pretty darn close because I checked and rechecked my work multiple times before I buttoned everything back up. I'm no where near perfect though which means I wouldn't rule it out altogether that it's not spot on.

I agree John on the hard work it takes to get these bikes up to par. How soon I forget how much blood, sweat, and tears went into getting my XS650 roadworthy. If you go to the XS forum, I have a ton of posts there over the past few years working through carb and electrical issues. My works not done yet with it but at least I can go home right now, kick start it, and ride. I'm hoping to be hopping on the GL before too long. Once she's running properly, I can address the fork seals, lighting, and a few little things and enjoy her in between. My wife asked me if I considered selling off both bikes for one nice bike that doesn't have any issues and I can just hop on and ride. I told her that I have a lot of pride in both bikes because I was able to address the issues and resurrect these bikes from the dead. If anyone asks about them, I can dive right in to what I've done to them instead of only saying "Thanks, I bought it this way". Not that there's anything wrong with that but the reason I have the things I have is because I had to work on them. I've rarely afforded to purchase anything new and ready to roll.

Thanks again for the words of encouragement!

_________________
1976 GL1000
1978 Yamaha XS650
1969 Camaro Z28
1977 Redheaded Wife (Better move her to the top of this list)