Further thoughts on Hydro Clutch conversion

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sunnbobb
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#16

Post by sunnbobb »

Darn Nice job John! Great write up too. I am going to go for that conversion, asap. Thanks for working out all the details.
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#17

Post by kirbb9 »

Old Fogey, I am a little confused about the oil pump chain. If the 12 has a larger
sprocket doesn't that make the chain too short?

And I agree with everyone, Beautiful bike and excellent shop tips.

Thanks, Brady
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#18

Post by ElPiloto »

Hooray! You have solved one of the major weaknesses of the GL1000. This is how Honda should have done it from the beginning.

One less impediment to making real horsepower with the GL1000 engine.

Ten thousand thank you's. :-D
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#19

Post by Old Fogey »

kirbb9 wrote:Old Fogey, I am a little confused about the oil pump chain. If the 12 has a larger
sprocket doesn't that make the chain too short?

And I agree with everyone, Beautiful bike and excellent shop tips.

Thanks, Brady


The oil pump chain is the same for all the 1000/1100/1200 which means that the 1200 oil pump sprocket is smaller by one tooth also! 1200 left, 1000 right. That also means that the 1000 oil pump will be overdriven by my reckoning by about 12% which should help the lubrication a bit.
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Sprokets 1200 left side.jpg
Sprokets 1200 left side.jpg (14.44 KiB) Viewed 188 times
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Re: Further thoughts on Hydro Clutch conversion

#20

Post by Deancat »

I have been in the process of converting to the 84 clutch in to my 77 GL1000. Aside from aftermarket clutch plates that don't fit, because of poor QC on the production line. It would be good to note that there is no way the standard 84 clutch rod and thimble ( for want of a better name) will fit in the '77. In the '84 the thimble extends into the end of the hollow shaft and appears to function as a guide or centering device for the clutch pack. The 77 has an aluminium plug with oiling hole in this location. All I can say is the bore of this shaft is too small to allow use of the 84 Thimble, so it is misleading in this particular instance to infer the 84 rod can be used in a 77, even with the 84 clutch, without modification. Don't ask how I know this.
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Re: Further thoughts on Hydro Clutch conversion

#21

Post by Old Fogey »

Deancat wrote:I have been in the process of converting to the 84 clutch in to my 77 GL1000. Aside from aftermarket clutch plates that don't fit, because of poor QC on the production line. It would be good to note that there is no way the standard 84 clutch rod and thimble ( for want of a better name) will fit in the '77. In the '84 the thimble extends into the end of the hollow shaft and appears to function as a guide or centering device for the clutch pack. The 77 has an aluminium plug with oiling hole in this location. All I can say is the bore of this shaft is too small to allow use of the 84 Thimble, so it is misleading in this particular instance to infer the 84 rod can be used in a 77, even with the 84 clutch, without modification. Don't ask how I know this.

Nowhere do I infer that you use the 1200 guide pin! Go back to the pictures on the 1st page and you will find this.
The 1200 pressure release plate has an open bearing to allow the normally fitted long guide pin to go through. The 1000 has a push rod cup instead which needs to be swapped into the 1200 one.
The 1200 pushrod is cut down to 42.5mm .

Right at the beginning I mention that this was done in conjunction with Sunnbobb's post, so you read that too.

http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic. ... ht=#136393

More info on the conversion could be had from here, as also noted on the same post.

http://s298.photobucket.com/albums/mm27 ... %20clutch/
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Re: Further thoughts on Hydro Clutch conversion

#22

Post by alwing17 »

Hell,John,I thought you used the clutch basket from the 1200 already!! The Zonker was converted over last year with a 1200 clutch w/the diaphragm spring. I used the oil pump drive gear from the 1200 as well.
I am also using a 5/8" bore Nissin clutch master cylinder that matches Randakk's brake master cylinder.

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1975 GL 1000 "Street Fighter"
1976 GL 1000 "Screaming Yellow Zonker"
1976 GL 1000 Sulfur Yellow x2
1981 GL 1100 "Crown Royal"
1997 GL 1500 Pearl Sapphire Black
1977 GL1000 Cirrius Blue
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Re: Further thoughts on Hydro Clutch conversion

#23

Post by Old Fogey »

alwing17 wrote:Hell,John,I thought you used the clutch basket from the 1200 already!! The Zonker was converted over last year with a 1200 clutch w/the diaphragm spring. I used the oil pump drive gear from the 1200 as well.
I am also using a 5/8" bore Nissin clutch master cylinder that matches Randakk's brake master cylinder.
Not sure that I follow that? ? ? I did use all the 1200 clutch last year, as in the post.

Image

Like your clutch m/c but not too keen on the 'olde worlde' look of the reservoir. That puts me off Randakks conversion too. Has anyone seen a remote reservoir that looks more modern; you know, maybe a cast square type to replicate the ones on the standard m/cs?
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Re: Further thoughts on Hydro Clutch conversion

#24

Post by alwing17 »

Sorry,John...I misunderstood! :( I would think any clutch master cyl 5/8" bore would work. I'm thinking of a 1500 Wing clutch master. And if you wanted to have a match...Use the 1500 brake master as well!
1975 GL 1000 "Street Fighter"
1976 GL 1000 "Screaming Yellow Zonker"
1976 GL 1000 Sulfur Yellow x2
1981 GL 1100 "Crown Royal"
1997 GL 1500 Pearl Sapphire Black
1977 GL1000 Cirrius Blue
1977 GL 1000 Skidmark build
1976 GL 1000 Limited
2003 ST 1300 Silver Streak
(And those are just the Gold Wings! With an exception..)
Team 898...25%er...*Beverages Consumed
Team LTD...1/6th'er...* Even more beverages consumed
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Re: Further thoughts on Hydro Clutch conversion

#25

Post by 64vair »

I am so glad I came across this, (actually THESE) post(s). I have a 77 which I affectionately call my "cancer bike." the previous owner sadly died of cancer, and now the bike is with a cancer survivor. I just recently developed an issue popping out of first gear. I am pretty sure the shifter forks are good, as when I hold my foot on the shifter, when it pops out it pushes my foot up, so pretty sure it is just the dogs are shot. I bought another bike to swap the motor into mine, so I can go through mine. I have a 79 trans coming for it, and now will have a hydraulic clutch AND a 1200 clutch pack as well. I LOVE to modify things, as is evidenced by my 1962 Chevy Corvair with EFI, crank trigger, distributorless ignition, 4 wheel disc brakes etc!
Oh, BTW, the 77 will be getting EFI and coil on plug ignition. Thanks for helping me take my bike beyond what I had in mind! This is cool!
Oh, one other BTW, when I build the engine and trans, I will make use of anti-friction coatings and thermal barriers in the engine to get the best efficiency out of it I can.
Tom
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Re: Further thoughts on Hydro Clutch conversion

#26

Post by robin1731 »

64vair wrote:I am so glad I came across this, (actually THESE) post(s). I have a 77 which I affectionately call my "cancer bike." the previous owner sadly died of cancer, and now the bike is with a cancer survivor. I just recently developed an issue popping out of first gear. I am pretty sure the shifter forks are good, as when I hold my foot on the shifter, when it pops out it pushes my foot up, so pretty sure it is just the dogs are shot. I bought another bike to swap the motor into mine, so I can go through mine. I have a 79 trans coming for it, and now will have a hydraulic clutch AND a 1200 clutch pack as well. I LOVE to modify things, as is evidenced by my 1962 Chevy Corvair with EFI, crank trigger, distributorless ignition, 4 wheel disc brakes etc!
Oh, BTW, the 77 will be getting EFI and coil on plug ignition. Thanks for helping me take my bike beyond what I had in mind! This is cool!
Oh, one other BTW, when I build the engine and trans, I will make use of anti-friction coatings and thermal barriers in the engine to get the best efficiency out of it I can.
Tom
While it may be possible it is very rare for the dogs to be that worn on first gear. It is mostly caused when a gear does not engage completely. Like would happen when speed shifting. Since you are not moving the majority of the time when shifting to first gear the dogs get plenty of time to engage. Like I said, it's possible I guess but very rare. If mine was jumping out of first gear the first thing I would check would be that the shift lever wasn't hitting something before it fully engaged the gear.
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Re: Further thoughts on Hydro Clutch conversion

#27

Post by 64vair »

Thanks for the reply. I have a whole new trans coming, shift forks and all. I will post when I get it apart. Will be after 6/14, as I am taking a trip to meet up with my cousin, and will not have the time to mess with this till afterward. I have put 20,000 miles on the bike. When I got the bike it needed a lot of work and was quite cold blooded. I am thinking that the idle speed was probably high to hide a lot of the issues it had (electronic ignition but the plate was loose and timing changing DRAMATICALLY while running! The screws were tightened down, just they were the wrong ones and too long! LOL!). So I am guessing that there were many times that the engine was running quite fast when it was stuck in first, and I think that is what did the dogs in. Of course, when it is apart we will know for sure what all is wrong. While I have not looked for something hitting the shifter, there is no reason to believe anything is different now than a couple weeks ago.
One side note, this has happened only 3 or 4 times while I have owned the bike, but there have been those VERY rare times that I put the bike in first, and the shifter was STUCK, would not move up or down, and I was stuck in first gear. Would gently pressure the shifter up and down, and eventually the bike would shift and all was good. I thought that may be something with the drum and a fork. But like I said, only happened 3 or 4 times MAX and has not happened in 6 months or a year. So anywho, will have this all apart in June or July, while I ride the bike with the 78 motor in it. Will give me a chance to see what I think of the 78 cams. I go for gas mileage, and am seldom above 5000, so I may prefer them and coat them and stick them in my 77 motor.
Tom
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Re: Further thoughts on Hydro Clutch conversion

#28

Post by 64vair »

Oh, I should mention that after it jumped out of first the first 2 or 3 times, I was able to clean metal out of the oil filter housing. I am able to start in first, but I have to slip the clutch a bunch and can't go over about 12 mph or it will jump out, and I do not want any more metal in the oil. I am giving it a few miles and changing the oil and filter and cleaning out the screen. I have already changed the oil filter. Not a lot of metal in the oil filter housing, but enough that it would be REALLY hard to miss!
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Re: Further thoughts on Hydro Clutch conversion

#29

Post by 64vair »

Old Fogey wrote:Snip,......
All the plate thickness measured up OK but I had to use the hated 'B' plate as I didn't have spare plain ones. ......
OK I have to ask this. I read that the B plate is about the thickness of 2 steels. I just got an 84 clutch for my 77, and pulled it apart and measured the B plate and a pair of steels stacked together. I get the steels being .024 thinner than the B, (uncompressed). OK, fine, off size in the right direction. Now it is the springs in the B plate that make up that extra .024. So my question is, why bother buying 2 new steels, when you can just take the rivets out of the B plate, toss the spring, and use them? Is there some reason no one is doing this? It seems a rather obvious solution to this problem and since this thread is all about something FAR from obvious, I am just curious if there is some reason of which I am unaware that would make doing this a bad idea. Interested in hearing your thoughts!
Tom
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Re: Further thoughts on Hydro Clutch conversion

#30

Post by sunnbobb »

I use masters from VFR's. they work and look great.
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1978 Learning Experience
1980 County Road Hauler "Brain Damage"
1978 Cafe Custom Gl1000 "Vyper"
1977 Bulldog Inspired "Vaincre"
1981 Street Fighter GL1100 "No Quarter"
1983 Supercharged Street Drag "Anubis" (in worx)
1983 gl1100 mint restoration "Kristen"
1985 Aspencade..pondering.
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